"In love" vs thinking rationally/logical with a friend

[Jorg]

Hello everyone. I've had this issue almost for years with an old friend.

We know each other for like almost 13 years, we were 16yo back then and it is a looong and maybe complex story. Do I need to tell you about it? Probably for context, let me know if it is needed.

Anyway, for last couple of years we text almost everyday and I have had an oportunity to be more than friends but there have been some issues because of me and some because of her.

I have had problems because I usually try to separate my personal feelings from the more rational, logic thinking. My "heart" thinks I really like this girl, we should try something, but my rational side thinks we don't have anything to share, she likes pop, romantic and "reggae" music while I¿m all about rock, heavy and thrash metal. She would like to get married and have kids while I'm just not very sure or don't like that "plan".

Last time we saw in person was like 4 years ago when she invited me to her house, we were almost going to a date but I kinda "freaked out" when in my "plans" we were going to have a friends date but she texted me "how her parents in law were?", I was like hey, slow down please...

On the other hand she's like a "loving/caring dependent" person, I have talked about this with my therapist and she kinda agrees with me. She dated a guy a couple of years ago and after they broke up she told me the guy was cheating on her, almost immediately she felt in love with a coworker and I have tried to help her when she asked me about this guy, who I really think is a jackass kind of dude. You see, as far as she has told me, the guy only reaches her when he needs money or sex, and some of their conversations just make me want to punch that guy (she often sends me screenshots of their txts), when I think she finally has forgotten about the guy and she tells me that she doesn't want anything more with that jackass (her words, not mine) she then writes "loving" statuses but then she text me about how anyone doesn't know how she almost cries every night.

About a month ago they had a fight about a money she lended him in November but he didn't payed her back and she needed the money for paying her car loan and gas but the guy didn't answered her and never showed any try to payed her back.

I then told her, after months of trying to let her see how scumbag the guy was in a polite way, that I didn't like how that guy trated her and seems he only reachs her when he needs money or sex.

I don't know...I really like her and care for her but on the other hand, things are just too complicated being both so different and she falling for the scumbag again and again.

But here's a plot twist, since like a month ago she has been sending me "hints", she often texts me about going out, last month she needed to make an errand and instead of looking for a store near her appartment (she lives 5miles from my house), she told me she was going to go to a store that is like a block away from my house, wth the errand she told me can be made in any store!. Then I was talking to her about her computer and if she mantain it regularly (the conversation was result of she texting me of how slow the laptop was for work) and then she asked me if I could go someday to her appartment to "fix the computer", I just answered her "haha".

On another ocation I told her I needed to mae an errand in the town she lives but at the end I didn't go, but, she texted me that day if I still was near her house.

 

[Wolfnox]

First METAL!!!! Second in my opinion and from the way you describe it. She has a strong thing for you. But i wouldn't rule out that you might be a fall back option. Id wait a month or two. See if things get better with her problems. If she gets them straightened out and is still interested after that time has passed. See what happens.

 

[Baeraad]

I think my first question would be, if you do try dating and it goes badly, do you think you could recover from that and be friends again? Because 13 years is a lot to risk... though to be sure, it's also a pretty solid foundation that should be able to endure some turmoil. (I can tell you from my own experience that me and my ex stayed very close for many years after we broke up - we'd been friends before, and we just sort of slipped back into that)

If the answer is yes, then I say go for it. If the worst you have to worry about is getting your heart broken for a while, then the upside outweighs the risk.

 

[Mycroft.Holmes]

Hello Jorg,

seeing as I am a expert on relationships, I should be qualified to answer this question in the most complete and objective manner possible.(sarcasm) I have never really experienced the feeling of ''love'', so I might be able to give a more rational view on it.

You mentioned the difficulty you are facing is too either go with rational thoughts or your feelings, In my opinion relationships last longer if they are based on long term commitment and Mutual trust and communication between the people involved. So, if you want to be with someone long term you need to consider the pros of cons of dating her. You know this person for a long time, so you know her personality quite well already. I would advice to work through this phase without using your feelings.

When you have done it, I would advice talking to her about it. Maybe that is just my style but it strikes me as logical that if you both are going to be in this relationship with the hope of it being long term, you need to know exactly what each of your expectations, goals, values and future plans are. For example, if she really wants children and you do not and both of you are not willing to compromise on it, it is hard to make it work long term. You can work through the possible scenarios you will face together that way.

Atleast this is roughly how I would handle it. But then with way more loopholes, complications and safe guards.

 

[Mia]

From a female point of view, Jorg, she seems too erratic for someone like you. Would you be able to have a relationship with someone who falls in and out of love all the time and doesn't seem to understand the emotional ramifications? Who appears interested in you, but may meet someone else tomorrow and fall desperately in love with them.

She seems too emotionally fragile at this point in her life. Someone who is confused and doesn't know what she wants.

You seem to have some sort of protective instinct when it comes to her, would that mean that you care about her?

She wants to have children and possibly marriage. Is she saying those words because that's something you've expressed a desire for and she wishes to agree with the things you want?

As you seem somewhat reluctant to become too closely involved, there is likely a reason for that subliminal reaction.

 

[Peter Morrison]

Jorg, your head is screwed on well, so I don't think any advice, pro or con, would offend you. I agree with the decision to remain cautious. This girl doesn't seem to have any emotional maturity. I remember a scene from a movie where a girl was trying to have an affair with a married man. She loved him because he was so dedicated to his family. Some people can't navigate their own feelings and brain at the same time. This might be one of those cases.

You might also feel sorry for her. That alone unleashes sentiments of caring which can translate into romance. I think she is needy and has to make a few more mistakes before she can actually deal with her issues. You'd be a better friend/ally during this phase. Dating her would set the stage for marriage and kids. That's not a lease, that's "rent-to-own". It's a one-way street with no exits. You are smart to look before you leap. It could save both of you a lot of unpleasantness and heartache.

 

[Jorg]

Thanks for your answers. Well, although it kinda hurts to say it, she is "needy", back when we first met, around 2006, and ultil today she is the kind of girl whom goes from a relationship to another in days or weeks, I remember telling her back then that she may need to slow down and take sometime to think about things and don't rush into boyfriends.

To make things even worse, the "scumbag" she's been falling for, the guy I told you about before, he has a daughter with another girl and my friend is like nothing happends, sure if the guy would treat her well (my friend) it would be an issue but as I wrote before I would punch that guy in his face because of how she tells me he treats her. Like a month ago she even told me that due to her money problems she was thinking in stop taking the anticonceptive pill, I just had to tell her a big NOOOOOO because that's like the only thing protecting her and I was really worried that dude was going to run away if something happened, she told me he is very responsible with his daughter, sure he can be but that's only 1 child, with 2 it may be more difficult to say the least.

 

[tducey]

You have to be rational with love. To me it shouldn't just happen, it should occur after much thought about everything especially the other person.

 

[paloftoon]

Something like this could be a reality, but you have to know what to request. Be direct 1-1 and bring important things on the table. Tell her your interest in her, your impression of her interest in you, and that you want to try to stay platonic if you and her don't work out romantically. Also, ask her to make sure she is not going to rebound back to this particular boyfriend (or any other for that matter unless you and her agree to such a setup beforehand, etc.). If you have to be the one to break it off, make sure you are ready to do that too. If you are ready to do all these things I mentioned, then I say go for it. If you have to hesitate on something though, then I wouldn't look for a commitment and maybe not even date.

 

[Jorg]

Well, I think things got weird or turned to crap with this girl after yesterday.

uff...where do I begin, I guess iy is safe to say I wasn't the one to blame this time. You see, after months of she trying to get out with me I tried to ask her yesterday, I haven't been able to go out with anyone because of studies. But that wasn't a big deal, last week she shared a picture of her in the birthday party with the guy I told you before it was an asshole and treate her bad, she even told me she went to bed crying because of him.

Anyway, I tried to ask her but she told me she was still on another town near her work because there was a storm and several streets got flooded, as I watched the news earlier it definitely was storming but then she told me she was in this guy's house...I mean, I thought she already broke with him. Curiously a couple of weeks ago she quit her job because of problems there and oh my her new job is 5min away from the guy's house...I wouldn't be surprised if she only changed jobs because he wanted to be near him.

I ask him to go out but as I did I also told her it could be weird because of she being with him...and that I was thankful I didn't said anything to her, like feeling and that crap.

Oh btw when she told me she was with this guy again she was like "well, we are good this week, he treats me nice"...sure he made you cry and a lot of other things but ok...

After some minutes I told her, maybe a little disappointed, ok nice but please, if that guy ever treats you like before or you have problems with him, don't tell me, I told you what I thought about him in a polite way and I don't think I could do that again. She then asked me what my problem was, I told her that ffs the guy treated her bad, ffs what about all that crap she told me? that I tried to help her and I was worried; she told me I was jealous...may be I was but I was most worried...anyway I stopped texting her after that.

When I arrived to my house after class, I received a text from her telling me I was wrong and jealous...I told her I was ok, I wasn't going to intrude in her life anymore and I was just trying to help her. She told me she could take care of herself, she was an adult, I told her ok, I agree, but what about all those times he make you cry, and all stories she told me?... she was like: Oh well, there are ups and downs don't you think?

I stopped texting her for good after that...her answer just seemed like those words coming from a person who is accustomed to be in a toxic relationship with a partner who beats her every week and still loves him...you know, those horrible things you see in the news.

Idk what will happened, I'm just tired, after all the things she told me, I tried to help her and still...it is just plain stupid stuff, I know I have to move on, after all my past experiences I have learn not to overthink this kind of stuff and if she wants that I can't do anything more, I tried my best but there's a limit I learnt to create for the past 5 or 6 years and that's how the world works, I now really understand why people leave messages seen and don't answer them, why some people block others...

 

[Jorg]

And just today I received a text from her asking me if I was still angry at her...I don't think I will answer, I'm just tired, besides, I'm not really anger or mad, It is just not in my DNA to fight with someone...I'm kinda disappointed to be honest.

 

[Wolfnox]

Rest. Delete that number or block it. Nothing more you can do. She doesnt want help.

 

[Jorg]

Rest. Delete that number or block it. Nothing more you can do. She doesnt want help.

I wasn't going to answer in the first place but talking with my therapist I guess that was the right mature thing to do....Well things became a little muddy, dirty I guess.

As always I was polite and acertive, I told her I wasn't mad at her but dissapointed and tired. She told me she didn't like the form I talked to her on friday (I was polite like I always do); I told her I was sorry if I was being a little "ruff" but because of the circunstances I had to say what it has to be said.

What circumstances, yours? she said.

I told her, with due respect, that in couldn't understand how she was kneeling before that guy after what he did to her, that in life there are ups and downs but you need to draw a limit and save your dignity. After all the bad breakups she had I thought she could have learnd something but to me it seems she still dates the same kind of guy. I was sorry as a friend I had to tell her that.

She then answered me that was the thing I felt pain, if it was the fact that I didn't tell her earlier how I felt about her; idk if that was a legitimate question or just some kind of comeback to make me feel bad. I told her that I wasn't hurt, even if I feel something for her I have learn to use my head befoer my heart/feelings and rationaly speaking we were too different...

She just told me I was right, we were too different...

and that I guess is all, damn, I am shaking a little, I feel my hands cold and shaking...

 

[Wolfnox]

I wasn't going to answer in the first place but talking with my therapist I guess that was the right mature thing to do....Well things became a little muddy, dirty I guess.

As always I was polite and acertive, I told her I wasn't mad at her but dissapointed and tired. She told me she didn't like the form I talked to her on friday (I was polite like I always do); I told her I was sorry if I was being a little "ruff" but because of the circunstances I had to say what it has to be said.

What circumstances, yours? she said.

I told her, with due respect, that in couldn't understand how she was kneeling before that guy after what he did to her, that in life there are ups and downs but you need to draw a limit and save your dignity. After all the bad breakups she had I thought she could have learnd something but to me it seems she still dates the same kind of guy. I was sorry as a friend I had to tell her that.

She then answered me that was the thing I felt pain, if it was the fact that I didn't tell her earlier how I felt about her; idk if that was a legitimate question or just some kind of comeback to make me feel bad. I told her that I wasn't hurt, even if I feel something for her I have learn to use my head befoer my heart/feelings and rationaly speaking we were too different...

She just told me I was right, we were too different...

and that I guess is all, damn, I am shaking a little, I feel my hands cold and shaking...

Well done. And well said.