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I'm NOT voting for president (or anyone else) permanently

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by oregano, May 20, 2020.

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  1. oregano

    oregano Judgment day: 27/9/2021? V.I.P Member

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    I've finally made up my mind that there is really no point in voting. No matter who wins, there is an entrenched bureaucracy that really runs things (I don't mean the "Deep State" of Q-Anon lore necessarily, but the federal govt as a whole) and who does what they want. The guy at the top is salad dressing to make people think that the kale underneath isn't rotten.

    Also, once upon a time Americans elected philosophers and intellectuals to the presidency. Today we elect big spending reality TV hosts. I'm sorry, but that's a red flag of societal decay of the kind that can't be reversed.

    The cool thing about living off grid as much as possible is that you don't have an actual street address so you can't be found for "jury duty" and be forced into participating in a corrupt legal system where guilt is predetermined and the jury is there to make the trial look superficially "fair".

    That and disability payments and the various stupid licenses surrounding driving and hunting/fishing and such are the only reasons I'd need to interact with a rotten, totalitarian govt. Otherwise, it's on my own. So, I no longer vote, since it only encourages them.
     
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  2. Aspychata

    Aspychata Serenity waves, beachy vibes

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    Business as usual in America. Doesn't really matter.
     
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  3. LucyPurrs

    LucyPurrs NT, INFJ V.I.P Member

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    I also feel very disillusioned but would never not vote while Trump is in office- he has set this country back in so many ways , not the least of which is his scrapping of environmental protections. If you don't vote against Trump you are condemning this country to tyranny as he will surely make his move to be king for however long he wants if reelected.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  4. mw2530

    mw2530 Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. is far from perfect, but millions of its citizens are able to live decent lives and have opportunities that residents of other countries are not afforded. I would rather live here than plenty of other countries. Perhaps the 24/7 negative news cycle is affecting your thoughts and feelings. I know if I listen to too much it can affect me in a negative way. I've been trying to listen to more local news as it tends to be much less biased and more positive.
     
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  5. mw2530

    mw2530 Well-Known Member

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    I generally vote based on policies, not based on the individual. The office of the president has increased in power over time under both parties. The number of administrations under the executive branch has increased over time which has increased the power of the executive branch. Meanwhile, Congress seems to be incapable of compromise causing gridlock which effectively weakens the legislative branch. These two things combined has shifted some power from the legislative branch to the executive. This issue is bigger than any one person, no matter how powerful that person may be. It is a systematic problem.

    Saying that voting for Trump is condemning the country to tyranny is just plain partisan rhetoric. And that's what we don't need anymore.
     
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  6. LucyPurrs

    LucyPurrs NT, INFJ V.I.P Member

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    I totally disagree- we have never had anyone in the presidency of this country who is as amoral, disrespectful of others and just plain lies like Trump. He is out only for himself- it's not a matter of politics- he's personally a real jerk in my opinion and treats others with no respect at all and fires anyone who disagrees with him, tries to subvert the free press etc. He's a dangerous man in ways we haven't seen before. Much more like other dictators in history than any other president from either party. To label this as partisan politics is being naïve. I'll stop there. Not going to try and get into any arguments here.
     
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  7. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    Not voting is the choice made by some elderly people I know.
    One man and wife told me that they wouldn't vote because they
    didn't think they were well enough informed to make a choice.

    The wife told me that she figured there wasn't any point in her
    trying and the husband had alzheimer's. He had opinions, but he
    wasn't tuned to current events.

    The other couple, the husband does vote, but the wife abstains
    because she doesn't think voting promotes the beliefs of her
    church. She thinks that voting enables Satan to take worldly
    control. She means that in a literal, not figurative or metaphoric
    sense.
     
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  8. oregano

    oregano Judgment day: 27/9/2021? V.I.P Member

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    @tree, with all the competing sources of "news" that have their own versions of reality that directly contradict each other, being uninformed is sadly a fact of life. Of course, there are powerful people who like it, so it won't change.

    @LucyPurrs, the problem is far bigger than Trump or Biden or any other figurehead. Trump is a jerk, yeah, but he has found out how little real power the POTUS has. He's been reduced to whining on Twitter. There is a vast body of unelected, unaccountable managers and workers in all levels of govt who have a viewpoint and who really run the country. There are a handful of agency heads who can be chosen by the president, but that's not where the power is. The power is deep within the "Deep State" if you will, or maybe the "Dark State" would be a better term-a bureaucracy hidden from public view that is the true power. Choosing between Tweedledee or Tweedledum every four years is pointless, is what I'm saying.
     
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  9. Matthias

    Matthias Well-Known Member

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    I think you might like the libertarian party.

    Jury duty would allow you to help decide guilt and make the trial more fair. If someone is looking at prison time for a victimless crime that's only illegal because arrogant liberals are opposed to it and want to shove their ideology down everyone else's throats, you can find him not guilty through jury nullification even if you think he broke the law.
     
  10. mw2530

    mw2530 Well-Known Member

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    Completely disagree. Both sides lie and are disrespectful of each other. For example, Nancy Pelosi tearing up the President's State of the Union address after he was finished speaking - what a despicable act. To place all the blame on one person or party is ludicrous. Trump is just an easy target for the mass media to go after and get everyone riled up.

    BTW, my thoughts on the increasing power of the executive branch primarily come from a book I read authored by an individual who served in more than one Democratic presidential administrations. The book is "Our Damaged Democracy", by Joseph Califano Jr. The book discusses many other things, including the media's bias against Trump, as well as their failure to call out some of Obama's lies.

    To me, considering there is disrespect coming from both sides of the aisle, I see it as a wash. I think the disrespect is a problem, but when both sides partake in the activity, it isn't possible for me to decide how I vote based on that lone issue. Therefore, as I said in my earlier post, I vote based on policy, not the person. I'm more concerned about the policies of the democratic party. It seems like they live in a fantasy world sometimes. For example, the House passed a new multi-trillion dollar stimulus bill recently. It is not going to pass the Senate, but it shows their intentions. Exuberant spending with no realistic way to pay for any of it. The federal debt is a serious problem and I am frustrated by both sides regarding their lack of ability to reign in the deficit. But many of them don't care, b/c they will be gone once we have to face the realities of this problem. Unfortunately, the problem will be left for the younger generation to face.
     
  11. Animal

    Animal Member

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    @mw2530 - Yes, the House Dems just passed another stimulus bill, yet the Republicans keep bailing out corporations, just like they bailed out the banks in 2008. This administration also seems to be at war with the environment. They want to roll back regulations, including clean water & air quality standards that help keep wildlife and people, especially those in brown sites, healthier. Do they not remember rivers actually catching fire until the Clean Water Act was in place? Both parties' actions favor corporations over people (and let's not forget the ridiculous law that stated corporations ARE people), and until we can let go of this two-party system that's killing this country, I don't think we're ever going to see significant change. It's just a tennis match back and forth between the two election year after election year, then it's winner-take-all and half the country is angry until the next election cycle.
     
  12. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    What occurs to me is that when you relinquish your option of voting,
    you are giving permission to other people to choose for you.
     
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  13. oregano

    oregano Judgment day: 27/9/2021? V.I.P Member

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    Maybe, but people today don't vote as individuals, they vote as blocs. It's gone from "one man, one vote, one difference" to a system more like Afghanistan's brief experiment with democracy in the mid 2000s, where candidates pitched themselves to the chiefs of clans, and then the clan chiefs told their people how to vote. It's a lot more collectivist than Americans would like to admit, and possibly something like Marx might have had in mind, a "syndicalist" system where people would interact with the govt via their labor union structures/leaders. What I am saying is that there is no place in America's system for small minorities like us, who can't be relied on to vote in sync with a large bloc of similarly minded voters. So, since my vote doesn't matter, I won't bother.
     
  14. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    Still sounds like giving up, to me.
     
  15. The Notorious LFC

    The Notorious LFC Member

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    Personally, I usually vote even if I feel it's mostly a waste of time.

    Looking at the current candidates running, I would likely vote for Biden over Trump even if they're both mostly disagreeable, both going senile and both have a number of sexual harassment and assault allegations in their past. So why vote? Because, for all they have in common, one is still substantially worse than the other.
     
  16. oregano

    oregano Judgment day: 27/9/2021? V.I.P Member

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    My POV is that the system is too rotten to be saved and that the best thing is to try and get out of the way before it tumbles down. Giving up, maybe. But the alternative is being dragged down with everybody else when the collapse comes. I'd rather not be in a city when everybody suddenly realizes that the food is gone, and no more is arriving.
     
  17. The Notorious LFC

    The Notorious LFC Member

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    The thing is, you won't be able to get out of the way when that happens and while it is becoming more likely, it doesn't appear to be an 'any day now' situation. It's kind of like if I refused to get out of bed because 'hey, if I sit in my own filth and don't leave for a few weeks I'll be dead' Indeed, but that outcome can be avoided if only I choose to stand up and get out of bed before it happens.

    If apathetic voters all decided to start investing energy into changing things they might actually be able to prevent the outcome you fear. Of course, since there's millions of them to convince it's somewhat harder than my example.
     
  18. oregano

    oregano Judgment day: 27/9/2021? V.I.P Member

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    Well, I personally have been planning to go totally off grid for several years now. Well, as off grid as possible. I don't think it's any day now, no, well maybe no but with this virus it could eventually turn out to be the big game ender within a year or two, it's for something like this why I want to be a somewhat self-sufficient hermit. (Also the fact that society will never accept autistic or disabled people, so why should I accept society and try to interact with it on terms that will never favor me?) I'm hoping to be out of the urban mess within 6 to 12 months, and alone up in the mountains, living off the land.
     
  19. The Notorious LFC

    The Notorious LFC Member

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    I wanted to do that for ages, but I'm too much of a goblin for that now.
     
  20. mw2530

    mw2530 Well-Known Member

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    The PPP loan program is not intended to be for large corporations, but for companies with less than 500 employees. The government forced companies to close their businesses, at no fault of their own. I surely wouldn't call it a bailout when the government tells a business that they no longer are allowed to operate. I think the program should have been run much tighter, as some companies rec'd funds that were not materially impacted by the shutdown. Many small businesses did need the funds and would probably go under with out the help. Many will go under even with the help.

    The bigger problem is we are running a deficit even when the economy is in an expansion period. To solve that problem we probably need to both increase taxes and reduce spending. There is a limit to how much the government can tax before it becomes damaging to the economy. Cutting spending is where most of the money will need to come from.

    I love how the term "bailout" is used when money goes to companies, while the word "stimulus" is used when the money goes to individuals.
     
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