If autism is so spectral and varied, how do I find people with what I have?

[SUM1]

Hi I'm SUM1.

Upon initally joining this forum, and especially after making certain topics about things I thought would get almost entirely same-sided replies, I've come to notice that autism really is more diverse than I thought it was.

I have a diagnosis of Asperger's and it was me who went out to get it because I was so sure I had it after reading the symptoms. On a side note I also have diagnosed social phobia.

However there are several questions which still bother me to this day, and I really would like to find answers on them:

• Why is autism separated on such an extreme that while some Aspies have incredible intelligence and high IQs, some autistics have incredibly low IQs and low intelligence or learning difficulties like dyslexia? Why is there almost no in between as well?
• It was my assumption that autistic people's logical and black and white reasoning would lead them do deduce that there is no divine being due to all the laws of physics it would break, but my Do You Believe In God? topic received incredibly varied answers. Why is this and does it mean autism or Aspergers doesn't always lead to black and white thinking, and if so, then what is it that makes my thinking so robotic? Does it have a name?
• This may sound strange but I notice in early picture of me, my head, the brain case, was much wider than my sister's and even my mother, like literally my ears pointed outwards at the top because my head was in the way, and I thought this could have had a link to how I am, since the temporal and parietal lobes are situated in the widest region and parts of them manage long-term memory storage, from what I looked up. But I've noticed a lot of people diagnosed with Asperger's don't have this, instead having rather 'long' heads, which I had in the past associated with neurotypical people but can no longer do so for this very reason.
• I've noticed tonnes, too many people with Aspergers or autism who seem to display so much empathy online, despite lack of empathy being a defining characteristic of ASD. I know most people want to 'be nice', but there's a clear difference between 'being nice' and actually having empathy, one of which is meant and the other not. I'm obviously not going round offending people (despite sometimes accidentally doing so) but I would find it incredibly cringey displaying so much emotion online despite how I feel about a person, and I've seen such warming messages being posted which even though I recognise are nice I could never do so myself purely because it gives me, the best way to describe it is a feeling of incredible cringe.

Some more oddities about me, I have what's apparently called 'perfect pitch' which means I can identify any note, sometimes up to 7 keys at a time, just by hearing them, and I know the keys of songs and names of chords from hearing them.
I also know the digits of pi to roughly 200 places, but my highest was around 440.
I've gained series of obsessions on completely unrelated things which has meant I have knowledge of every country in the world, every capital, except like 3 Pacific or Caribbean ones, most current and Presidents or kings, historical states, ethnic groups (especially including genetic haplogroups), linguistic families and their locations, numbers of speakers and languages, and national anthems (memorising several ones off by heart).
And apart from world studies, models of planes, plane crashes including dates, death tolls and causes,
animal species and especially extinct Homo species, anatomical knowledge such as functions of hormones and various diseases knowledge.

I'm 17 by the way.

I also had an obsession with longest words in English when I was 7, leading me to have memorised most of them and having people at school come up to me asking me to say them.

That aside, the things which characterise me as Aspergic include my reactions to social environments, which although I sometimes understand, I cannot partake in, having limited eye contact, almost no facial expression, clumsy posture and dislike of constant sarcasm. I notice when I talk my jaw tends to shift from side to side left and right without me even controlling it, I don't know why. I have fine motor deficiencies I conclude because my finger movements, my handwriting, and sometimes my gait, are especially clumsy. I much prefer to type than handwrite, which I do so much quicker.

I also did a personality test (the Myers-Briggs I think it's called) and although a while ago I was an INTP, I'm now an INTJ. But even so, I'm noticing INTJs displaying startlingly different characteristics to me, even though we share the same personality supposedly.

Now that having been said I want to know what all of the above makes me, and I would like answers to the questions above; why I've noticed that many others, even with the same diagnosis of Asperger's, don't always tend to have this kind of thinking and have so much empathy, despite the opposite of these things being defining characteristics of ASD.

Thanks.

 

[StephF]

Hello

 

[Tom]

Its hard to explain, because right now I don't believe anyone actually knows.

There's a ton of theories and speculation, most which I no longer give much credence.

I give more notice to the 'hard' findings of actual physical research. Three reported findings for autistics (all recent) of note are:

1) Greater conductivity/activity between left and right brains
2) Significantly more synapses
3) Lifelong development of blood capillaries to new areas of the brain

I certainly agree from my own observation that the variation exists and is wide. I think we will have to wait to see what science will reveal further, as to confirm and explain it.

Right now the lack of hard information and confusing complexity have led the medical profession to lump everyone together on a convienent catch-all 'Spectrum'. It may be there are different types of autism, rather then light-medium-heavy cases of the same type. How much does the normal variation in brains and personality types affect how autism presents itself?

Extinct hominids is a very interesting subject!

 

[Rayner]

Hi I'm SUM1.

Upon initally joining this forum, and especially after making certain topics about things I thought would get almost entirely same-sided replies, I've come to notice that autism really is more diverse than I thought it was.

I have a diagnosis of Asperger's and it was me who went out to get it because I was so sure I had it after reading the symptoms. On a side note I also have diagnosed social phobia.

However there are several questions which still bother me to this day, and I really would like to find answers on them:

• Why is autism separated on such an extreme that while some Aspies have incredible intelligence and high IQs, some autistics have incredibly low IQs and low intelligence or learning difficulties like dyslexia? Why is there almost no in between as well?
• It was my assumption that autistic people's logical and black and white reasoning would lead them do deduce that there is no divine being due to all the laws of physics it would break, but my Do You Believe In God? topic received incredibly varied answers. Why is this and does it mean autism or Aspergers doesn't always lead to black and white thinking, and if so, then what is it that makes my thinking so robotic? Does it have a name?
• This may sound strange but I notice in early picture of me, my head, the brain case, was much wider than my sister's and even my mother, like literally my ears pointed outwards at the top because my head was in the way, and I thought this could have had a link to how I am, since the temporal and parietal lobes are situated in the widest region and parts of them manage long-term memory storage, from what I looked up. But I've noticed a lot of people diagnosed with Asperger's don't have this, instead having rather 'long' heads, which I had in the past associated with neurotypical people but can no longer do so for this very reason.
• I've noticed tonnes, too many people with Aspergers or autism who seem to display so much empathy online, despite lack of empathy being a defining characteristic of ASD. I know most people want to 'be nice', but there's a clear difference between 'being nice' and actually having empathy, one of which is meant and the other not. I'm obviously not going round offending people (despite sometimes accidentally doing so) but I would find it incredibly cringey displaying so much emotion online despite how I feel about a person, and I've seen such warming messages being posted which even though I recognise are nice I could never do so myself purely because it gives me, the best way to describe it is a feeling of incredible cringe.

Some more oddities about me, I have what's apparently called 'perfect pitch' which means I can identify any note, sometimes up to 7 keys at a time, just by hearing them, and I know the keys of songs and names of chords from hearing them.
I also know the digits of pi to roughly 200 places, but my highest was around 440.
I've gained series of obsessions on completely unrelated things which has meant I have knowledge of every country in the world, every capital, except like 3 Pacific or Caribbean ones, most current and Presidents or kings, historical states, ethnic groups (especially including genetic haplogroups), linguistic families and their locations, numbers of speakers and languages, and national anthems (memorising several ones off by heart).
And apart from world studies, models of planes, plane crashes including dates, death tolls and causes,
animal species and especially extinct Homo species, anatomical knowledge such as functions of hormones and various diseases knowledge.

I'm 17 by the way.

I also had an obsession with longest words in English when I was 7, leading me to have memorised most of them and having people at school come up to me asking me to say them.

That aside, the things which characterise me as Aspergic include my reactions to social environments, which although I sometimes understand, I cannot partake in, having limited eye contact, almost no facial expression, clumsy posture and dislike of constant sarcasm. I notice when I talk my jaw tends to shift from side to side left and right without me even controlling it, I don't know why. I have fine motor deficiencies I conclude because my finger movements, my handwriting, and sometimes my gait, are especially clumsy. I much prefer to type than handwrite, which I do so much quicker.

I also did a personality test (the Myers-Briggs I think it's called) and although a while ago I was an INTP, I'm now an INTJ. But even so, I'm noticing INTJs displaying startlingly different characteristics to me, even though we share the same personality supposedly.

Now that having been said I want to know what all of the above makes me, and I would like answers to the questions above; why I've noticed that many others, even with the same diagnosis of Asperger's, don't always tend to have this kind of thinking and have so much empathy, despite the opposite of these things being defining characteristics of ASD.

Thanks.

Hey I'm 17 too . Honestly I have wondered the same thing, I've come to the conclusion that there is so much variation in people. I'm differant than most people in that I come across, largely because I'm an autistic person but also I've have a unique background growing up as well as insight from those closest to me and things I've experanced first hand. Sorry I can't really answer your question,since there are so many different angles that come into play. I also think somewhat roboticly I'm not sure if/what's it has a name or not. I've alway called my way of thinking. My "interpersonal mass computing mircopresice system" I came up with that when I was 11.

 

[Southern Discomfort]

Most people with Asperger's have normal levels of IQ, there are some with incredibly high levels, yes, but not everyone is a brainiac. There are medium functioning people out there too.

 

[clg114]

It boils down to one fact: We are all different, whether it be ASD or NT. But that is OK, diversity is not a bad thing.

 

[EricD]

The best way I can put this is: if you've met one person with ASD, you've met one person with ASD. Take me for example, I can be socially awkward, yet I'm VERY social. I don't understand sarcasm sometimes, yet I can give as good as I get.I'm FAR from clumsy, as I am an expert martial artist and champion golfer. I read like a doctor, but have a learning disability in math.
That diversity is what makes ASD so hard to understand. That's why, as an Aspie, diversity is important to me.
Welcome to AspiesCentral!!

 

[SUM1]

Yes thanks all these replies have been good, but none have so far been able to give an answer to one main question - if there is so much diversity, such as EricD saying he's very social, then what meaning has the diagnostic criteria for ASD? It makes it sound like it as a syndrome doesn't exist anymore. How are there people WITH an autism spectrum disorder who display fundamentally non-autistic behaviours?

 

[EricD]

What I didn't mention due to space is my absolute OBSESSION with golf. I have a fascination with hair. I'm friendly and social, but can be awkward, as well as avioing eye contact & not liking unannounced touch. I'm VERY nervous in crowds, unless I'm with someone I know. I also have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. I'm legally blind with nystagmus as well. I'm hypersensitive to sound, and loud, and low/high frequencies will send me running. So, we are all different. Let's embrace it and show the world that we have something to offer!

 

[SUM1]

Its hard to explain, because right now I don't believe anyone actually knows.

There's a ton of theories and speculation, most which I no longer give much credence.

I give more notice to the 'hard' findings of actual physical research. Three reported findings for autistics (all recent) of note are:

1) Greater conductivity/activity between left and right brains
2) Significantly more synapses
3) Lifelong development of blood capillaries to new areas of the brain

I certainly agree from my own observation that the variation exists and is wide. I think we will have to wait to see what science will reveal further, as to confirm and explain it.

When I had an MRI once, I was told I had a "small pituitary gland", though it didn't mean anything was different about the productivity of the gland but they couldn't be sure.

 

[zurb]

• I've noticed tonnes, too many people with Aspergers or autism who seem to display so much empathy online, despite lack of empathy being a defining characteristic of ASD....

Empathy is a common subject here.
Keep in mind that the diagnostic criteria are from an NT point of view. Aspies do feel empathy. But how they express it doesn't meet NT expectations. Because NTs don't see it expressed as they would, they assume Aspies don't have any.
Remember also that not everyone here is an aspie or autie, and some that are have learnt to behave more NTish, and as you said, its a spectrum. So, yes, you will see NT behaviour here too.

 

[Southern Discomfort]

How are there people WITH an autism spectrum disorder who display fundamentally non-autistic behaviours?

I think there can be multiple reasons why. For example a lot of people will through their lives make up for their autistic qualities and learn how to the neurotypical mind works. Such as learning common phrases aren't meant to be taken literally or eventually getting the hang of facial expressions.

In the ICD 10 there's the diagnosis of atypical autism, which means the person has strong autistic traits but not enough is presented to get the diagnosis of autism. the person might show repetitive behaviours but understand social rules for example.

There are also a faction of us who are very good at mimicking others, particularly women but some men do it too. They've done to for so long that no one can believe they're autistic. This makes getting a diagnosis very hard.

These are just some of the reasons why, I think, some of us can appear to be neurotypical.

 

[EricD]

Being Aspie is what has made me a great golfer. It's that obsession that has helped me overcome my disabilities. I'm Aspie Proud!

 

[ancusmitis]

Why is there almost no in between as well?

Actually there is a ton of in-between, but nobody talks about it because it isn't dramatic enough.

 

[midlife aspie]

Think of all human mentalities as points on a statistical curve. You will have 'outliers' at both ends.

 

[eonbus]

it shouldnt matter. this stuff gets people in trouble for judging something that is not so important.

 

[Suzanne]

Where on earth to start lol

Well, I am not officially diagnosed as aspergers, because of where I live, but I first came upon the word: aspergers, in a magazine and after reading about a young lady who has it, almost I could have been reading about me, but she was worse than me. But I hate the idea of being something that I am not and since I had just read it, I knew that I would be prejudged and so, I did not take it further, but actually it was my husband, who still struggles with the idea, who alerted to me to some more research. He suddenly said: for goodness sake, yet another obsession? I have never known someone to run in and out of obsessions. This was the first time I had even had any notion that I get quickly obsessed and other things too.

What made me hesitate is that I am very expressive person and my voice is not at all monotone. I am not particulary clever either but my long term memory is pretty good, but again, I would not be quickly grabbed by the media for my outstounding memory lol

It was joining aspiecentral, that I have to say, I was petrified of doing; again that feeling of I do not want to be seen as a fake, but I have been so welcomed that it soon disappeared and I have learned so much about aspergers, that I would never have learned from any professional.

There is a saying on here: you meet one aspie.....you meet one aspie. That is why it is called: on the spectrum.

Funny and rather ironic. I have never been professionally diagnosed as having chronic social phobia, but I am without a doubt social phobic. I takes a lot of mental preparation to just walk 3 mins away from my house to a shop!!! Made worse that I live in France and the language petrifies me.

I feel sure that the older one is, when finding out about aspergers, plays a lot on how one is as a person. You see: most of us lived our lives believing we were alien due to how much we could not interact with others. I know that I have lived my life not understanding why I cannot make friends or at least, keep a potential friendship. I have no idea of the concept of friendship and often looked on in dispair and envy at how others seem to make it so easy!

Also, I learned that female aspies are better at masking how they are and fitting in to what is considered the norm.

I remember when I was little, I could not understand it when someone joked or was sarcastic. I could not ever just strike up a conversation or meet anyone's eyes, but somehow, life has taught me. I can be a bit sarcastic myself now.

I take things very literal. just recently I complimented someone on a talk and this person came up to me, after a while and handed me a piece of paper and asked me to write down what I had said, because apparently it was rare for him to be complimented on his talk. I was just reaching in to my bag for a pen and his wife, smiled and said: don't worry, he is joking and actually, just a few seconds before that, I took the plunge and told her that I have aspergers and do not understand joking!

Even my husband has taken to saying: no, darling, sorry about that, I was just teasing you!

I can, up to a point, control obsessions, since I discovered that is what they are. My last obsession was about ebola and I felt that I lived and breathed the stupid word. When ever I heard it mentioned, my eyes would sparkle and I would act like a child! It was my attention being averted that got me out of it; lasted 2 week's.

When I was in my early 20's I was obsessed with Princess Di and then, the Victorian era. I astonished a friend ( my first I have ever made) when I related a bit about the Victorian era.

Numbers are like double dutch to me. We do not get on. It took me until recently to discover that I had mentally blocked myself from helping out with our accounts; it was like: you are terrible with maths and thus, do not have the right to have a say about money! As it happens, I feel sad, because I see that I have a bit of awareness with accounts. It is logical and I am a logical person.

As for empathy. To be honest, I act empathy out. I know what the done things is and so I become an actress. Sometimes it is like the actress part of me and my "true self" become entwined. I also act on: how I would feel and so, try to be that way. My husband often moans that I have no fellow feeling. I forget to pass on love to others. They are not in my life and so, I think: what is the point? When I sign off in a text or email, I sign it off in my name only, because I reason that I am the one sending it, not my husband. In fact, it is very difficult for me to see that we are as one.

I am passionate about colour and just love advising others on colour matches.

I have trouble moderating my voice. My husband has to remind me that we are in the same room now, so I can lower my voice!

To my way of thinking: the higher one is on the spectrum of aspergers, the more traits that tally with autism appear.

No one looking at me would ever guess I have aspergers, until they start spending time with me.

 

[Hurting89]

The "brainy" aspies get portrayed as the majority, but in reality they're not all that common. Most of of us high functioning (or level 1 autistics as they say now) autistics are indeed in the middle in terms intelligence. We are average, with average abilities and some disabilities here and there.

 

[FPanda]

I should state up front that I am allistic. My older brother and best friend are both Aspies are they couldn't be more different if they tried.

I'm not going to claim to be well-versed enough in ASDs to answer all of your questions but I have thoughts on a couple of them.

• Why is autism separated on such an extreme that while some Aspies have incredible intelligence and high IQs, some autistics have incredibly low IQs and low intelligence or learning difficulties like dyslexia? Why is there almost no in between as well?

It's the extremes that end up getting notice, as others have said, as a matter of contrast. The centre of the Bell curve gets most of the attention in the allistic population, but outliers are more of a focus when viewing people with "disorders". I think that's a shame because it's so reductive.

Yes thanks all these replies have been good, but none have so far been able to give an answer to one main question - if there is so much diversity, such as EricD saying he's very social, then what meaning has the diagnostic criteria for ASD? It makes it sound like it as a syndrome doesn't exist anymore. How are there people WITH an autism spectrum disorder who display fundamentally non-autistic behaviours?

ASDs aren't like other "disorders" classified in diagnostic manuals; they aren't mental or medical illnesses. Also, ASD research has only just started taking off in the last few decades so the clinical community still knows relatively little about the conditions. Add to this that diagnostic manuals are designed for identifying functional impairment so the criteria are fixed in such a way as to only capture clinically significant cases.

The reality of ASDs is that the broad range of manifested traits varies so widely in affected individuals that they defy the framework in which they've been housed. To me, people on the spectrum really seem more like a different species of human than like "normal" people with a plain old disorder, and I mean that in a value-neutral (or even positive) way. You're too complex a group to reduce to a simple description.

I don't know if I should post this or not, but a close friend of my own Aspie bestie recently had an off-the-record conversation with a distinguished American expert on Asperger's. She said this clinical psychologist was very disappointed with both the newest DSM and ICD. According to this doctor, a number of eminent experts on Asperger's have been lobbying for the condition to have it's own diagnostic cluster with several distinct variants, but the response from the APA and WHO was that there isn't a large enough body of research to justify that—yet.

 

[FPanda]

The "brainy" aspies get portrayed as the majority, but in reality they're not all that common. Most of of us high functioning (or level 1 autistics as they say now) autistics are indeed in the middle in terms intelligence. We are average, with average abilities and some disabilities here and there.

Hans Asperger called his subjects "little professors" and it seems to have stuck beyond his intention. I've seen a lot of claims that Aspies may have higher IQs on average than allistics, and I've read a couple of studies to that effect but the subject pool was too small to be meaningful, IMO. I have some background in statistics; I suspect the case may be that there is a big enough cluster of outliers with exceptional IQ that they skew the mean. And it's not like Aspies in the normal IQ range (90-110) are going to be as quick to identify themselves on places like forums compared to people with higher IQ, so voluntary anecdotal evidence is probably unreliable. My guess is that the curve of Aspie intelligence looks very much like that of the allistic population, if perhaps with a slightly longer, thicker tail of outliers on the far right end.