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Featured ICD-10 vs DSM-V

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by AspieWatchmaker, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. AspieWatchmaker

    AspieWatchmaker Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I live in the United States. I was diagnosed under the ICD-10 criteria for Asperger's syndrome rather than the DSM-V criteria for ASD, in this year, 2017.

    I'm trying to figure out why this is. At the time she simply said that the ICD is 'what we use' but I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe I am just paranoid but I can't help but wonder if she just thinks that being diagnosed will help me out but that I don't actually meet the requirements.

    I have always scored high for autism on all the online tests and I relate best to the experiences of other spectrumites. I geuss I am just ranting because I feel like the ICD-10 criteria are less legitimate. At least in the US it seems strange to do it tht way.
     
  2. Streetwise

    Streetwise Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    They must both be considered legitimate the ICD 10 is used in the UK but I think they also use The DSM5 it's probably whether the therapist thinks it's relevant
     
  3. AspieWatchmaker

    AspieWatchmaker Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I tried to word it in a way that didn't delegitimize the ICD, but it seems that the DSM should still take priority in the US. Maybe it has to do with my therapist being Serbian.
     
  4. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Missionary ☝ Cybernaut

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    Some American psychologists reject the ASD consolidation of the DSM-5 for its minimizing of Aspergers Syndrome. They have adopted the ICD-10 in its stead.
     
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  5. AspieWatchmaker

    AspieWatchmaker Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I know I was shocked when I heard, but I also like the spectrum concept. Having the spectrum be rated on a scale of only 1-3 on the other hand seems quite foolish...
     
  6. dragoncat16

    dragoncat16 Active Member

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    Anyone who has been diagnosed with AS under ICD-10 also fits the criteria for ASD under DSM-5, so the diagnoses are equivalent. No new diagnosis is needed for anyone with an AS diagnosis. Like many on this site, some practitioners do not agree with the way DSM-5 has lumped everything together into ASD, so they use the previous guide. It really makes no practical difference, and there's no law that says everything needs to be done using DSM-5, so your diagnosis is just as legitimate either way.
     
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  7. StephF

    StephF Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I was diagnosed using the ICD in the UK. Because the ICD retains Aspergers as a dx rather than just ASD in the DSM thats what I got and in my case I think it is more descriptive.
     
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  8. Voxsh

    Voxsh Member

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    ICD 11 is due for release next year and where DSM goes ICD follows. Even now diagnosis in the UK follows DSM 5 (although it still makes reference to ICD 10) I was diagnosed under DSM 5 so my diagnosis is autism spectrum disorder and then in brackets (Commonly known as Aspergers Syndrome) ICD covers all diseases, conditions and disorders, DSM only looks at mental health and related disorders and conditions.
     
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  9. Voxsh

    Voxsh Member

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    Incidentally all of my students who are undertaking psychology degrees have been told to ignore ICD
     
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  10. clg114

    clg114 Still crazy, after all these years. V.I.P Member

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    It seems to me that when the criteria for the DSM-5 was written, that there was more concern for political and financial reasons than there was the patient. I believe that this is why some therapists use the ICD criteria.
     
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  11. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Not at all surprising.

    IMO US medical institutions all operate on a proprietary level comparable to Apple. It's what makes the influence of Congress and private sector lobbyists so formidable against our medical community for better and more often worse.

    And yes, as clg114 posted, there are a few who "buck the system" to emphasize a purely medical evaluation and diagnosis rather than one compromised by political and economic special interests.
     
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  12. Voxsh

    Voxsh Member

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    I totally agree. I think it’s going to get harder to receive a diagnosis in the UK, an effective cost cutting measure indeed
     
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  13. dragoncat16

    dragoncat16 Active Member

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    But isn't it really just terminology? The "new" ASD level 1 is the same as the "old" AS or HFA. Same thing, different name.
     
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  14. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    I'm inclined to believe the terminology of the levels of ASD are surreptitiously crafted to suppress a positive diagnosis. Especially for those of us who would be considered to be "high functioning".

    An intent not of medical professionals, but rather politicians mindful of the taxpayers and to politically perpetuate the ACA, and insurers who want to pay out the least amounts in heath care claims.

    All essentially designed to downplay and marginalize autism for budgetary reasons of both the public and private sectors. A "win-win" for politicians on both sides of the aisle, and a "lose-lose" for most citizens whether they have health care insurance or not.
     
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  15. clg114

    clg114 Still crazy, after all these years. V.I.P Member

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    The difference is that it is considerably harder to get a diagnosis with the DSM-5 than it was with the DSM-4. To the point that I do not believe that I could get a diagnosis with the DSM-5.
     
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  16. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    I have the same feeling about that in my own case. Someone would make a fiscal-based decision in that instance rather than a medical one. Even when I'd have no intention of seeking entitlements and never have.

    Whatever it takes to deny one access to entitlements to keep the system afloat. Unless of course you have cancer....that's entirely different in their eyes.

    Pretty much the only thing I appreciate about the DSM-V is acknowledging autism being on a spectrum. That I think is a legitimate conclusion. But how the diagnostics process is handled compared to the DSM-IV protocols....yikes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  17. Katleya

    Katleya A bit of an acquired taste V.I.P Member

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    Really makes me reflect upon the psychiatrist I saw this summer to tackle my "performance anxiety", who argued that he didn't believe my diagnosis, or most autism diagnoses, because the criteria had been extended so much that everyone could virtually be diagnosed (I got my diagnosis earlier this year, after years of debating whether I needed to get that piece of paper or not, and saving up to see a specialist). I quickly came to the conclusion that he was full of s..t, but boy, you'd think the guy would at least actually keep up with the news in his particular field, and know that DSM-V makes it harder to meet the criteria for diagnosis, not easier. Psychiatry was not his special interest, I guess :p

    Veering back to the topic, I'll be honest and say that I know very little about the guidelines that don't have DSM as the first 3 letters of their name, however: depending on the reasons you stated for going through the dx part, perhaps your specialist followed what they felt was most fitting to how you presented. They may also have an issue with the way and reasons for which the DSM has removed AS (including due to a political/big pharma agenda), and feel that it shouldn't be the ultimate reference when diagnosing Aspies. I'm not sure being Serbian comes into account so much; regardless of where your psychiatrist was trained, doctors moving out to another country are usually requested to update their knowledge and follow local guidelines. If your specialist was US-trained, that makes being Serbian even less relevant.

    I don't think AS belongs in the DSM because it's not a mental illness, simple as that (and I haven't really seen used all that much to establish a differential diagnosis over schizoid personalities, BPD, psychosis, etc., so I doubt that it's kept there to keep people from receiving an erroneous dx for mental illness).
    I also feel that while the spectrum is definitely the way to go, lumping all of the variations under one single umbrella is unfair to all spectrumites involved. I fear that it places exaggerated expectations on some, creates unjustified expectations of limitations for others. But then again, I strongly believe that it's not my neurodiversity that makes me disabled, it's how people react to it and there's nothing inherently wrong about me that needs to be fixed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  18. dragoncat16

    dragoncat16 Active Member

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    I don't have first hand info (i.e. I haven't personally read the guidebooks for DSM-4 or DSM-5), but the psychiatrist who diagnosed me told me that the criteria were exactly the same. That's in the UK, but if the books are the same, it should be so for the US and the rest of the world as well.
     
  19. AspieWatchmaker

    AspieWatchmaker Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It is disheartening to think that politics and money potentially has so much to do with it. I guess I'm glad I got my dx when I did before the ICD-11 mimics the DSM. Also sad to see one country dominating the scene so much if the ICD truely does follow after the DSM.

    I have thought I was on the spectrum since I was 15 and got an internet connection to be able to do the research, but I didn't seek any help until I was 26. That is going to be one of my biggest regrets for sure.

    So long as dx and pharmacology helps me to keep working I'm not after any entitlements either, but it's nice to know I could potetially get financial help if and when it becomes necessary.

    Feeling better that my therapist was not trying to marginalize my dx after all the responses here.

    P.S.: Holy cow featured thread!
     
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  20. Dusty gold

    Dusty gold Kk's gigi...

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    Hi voxsh...newbiee grandma here and we are just now getting grandtr score thru school and waiting...on the psychologist scores..needless to say this month has been life changing..I notice you are pretty up on things...I worked for physician and know ICD codes in US changed..my grandtr I feel is right on the cusp of add and aspie..I have meeting the 14th this next week so this scoring is something I really need to none up on..question is what is DMX? what do I need to question the board with when they meet? They want to put her in a school with quiet room availability..not quite what I have in mind..there is a school that is not in the public sector that specializes in ASD/ASPERG syndrome..I have been 3 yrs getting her help..I believe she is HF but want some unbiased advise...our county board of disabilities interviewed her 11/9... and you could just know she asd..please advise....thanking you for your wisdom!!!!