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I won 7/10 Star Trek: Attack Wing tournaments and they think I am cheeting.

Rich Gray

Well-Known Member
Hi I am new here, and need to vent.

Having Aspergers really sucks sometimes. I cannot help but be frustrated over this. People misread the lack of eye-contact, and atypical body language, and assume that I am up to no good. Well after winning 7/10 Star Trek: Attack Wing tournaments at a local store, the judge told me that I am no longer invited. I think they are tired of loosing. He gave some pathetic excuses about cheating. I do not cheat by the way. The judge, for a while, had us use random ships. I had really good random ships, every time they did this wacky setup. By the time I went to this venue I had played the scenario 2-4 times at other shops. I play a lot more than the other players there. I am also a good player. When I loose a tournament, I pretty much win 2/3 games in the set.
 
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Hi Rich... Yes, I would agree that it would be good to explain what your deal is, especially in this circumstance. Especially that you had played the scenario before, and that you play a lot more than the other players there.

Is there anything nice you could do for the other people there, to let them know you're not just there to wipe the floor with them? ;) (I don't mean that you're there to be mean, but to win easily and decisively!)
 
Hi Rich... Yes, I would agree that it would be good to explain what your deal is, especially in this circumstance. Especially that you had played the scenario before, and that you play a lot more than the other players there.

Is there anything nice you could do for the other people there, to let them know you're not just there to wipe the floor with them? ;) (I don't mean that you're there to be mean, but to win easily and decisively!)

I go to all the venues within 100-miles of Chicago, that I can. This store just happen to be within my range. I suppose this is part of the competitive setup.

I do not know how to handle this. If you do not win, then you do not get the prize ship. I emailed the owner, the judge, a VP at Wizkids (who told me to email another department), and the conduct violation people at Wizkids (the company that makes the game, and the organized play kits).

The employees at the store seem nice, so far, but they seem to believe the judge. I did sense doubt when talking to the manager on the phone, and I was explaining things logically. The judge is not a much of a logical thinker, and his arguments are rather wanting (he thinks that you can't be good at something, and make a mistake, for example). It may be best for the store to not have me come in and win nearly every time, rather than loose customers.

I just wish that the other players would improve their game, and not resort to being bullies.

The last two times I barely won. There is a new player that almost beat me those two times.
 
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It's sometimes harder to prove something is not happening, than that something is happening. I don't have any useful advice for you but I'm sorry that you're having a difficult time with people not believing you. I can relate to that.
 
While it hasn't explicitly happened in a game as such, I can relate to this.

Just because my conduct seems odd and people have a hard time to read me, I've been excluded a few times in the past myself. Heck, I've been questioned by police if I was on drugs for just being plain old aspie me.

What I'm curious about is what exactly you did cheat with. I'm remotely familiar with the game mechanics (since it's quite similar to X-wing if I'm correct), and while no game is free of possible cheating, it puzzles me how you can cheat, even more if you're given random ships and thus can't cheat with ship selection (and presumably, the upgrades they can get).
 
I went into game 6/6 with 3/5 of the previous games won. The judge changed the rule that whomever won game 6 would get the prize, and not me (pretty much) automatically. I was told that this was to make sure that they cover the cost of the $90 prize kit. The prize was a huge DS9 space station.

The judge had an odd system where we would build a 100-point fleet, randomly select a ship, and rebuild a 100-point fleet with the randomly selected ship.

(a) I randomly, and consistently drew combat viable ships, while my opponents often drew ships that were often non-competitive,
(b) planned for this wonkiness by making my builds point-efficient no-thrills small bundle of points that were easy to work with, and
(c) building and re-building the fleets under time, and competitive stress was defiantly a contributing factor in the error I made.

So I was quite stressed that he changed the rules for the grand prize. I was being rushed to finish remaking my build. I used the wrong dial. I played the game as if I had the right dial. I called myself on it, and changed it. My opponent was fine with the correction. I thought everyone overhead the conversation. I played as if my bits were the correct bits. The judge goes crazy calling me a cheater, but, get this, defines cheating to include making a mistake. Having ADD and dyslexia I found this to be offensive. Cheating implied willful intent. Having said that you could be disqualified for making a mistake.

The next time I went in I used a Martok 8 captain chit, instead of a Martok 9 captain chit. The 6's, 8's and 9's in the font look too much alike. I mentioned it before we rolled any dice. The higher level captains fire first, but move last (the vast majority of the time you want to fire first). One guy blew up and threatened to punch me, and the judge said that he felt like punching me as well. He listed this as a reason to the store manager.

Last time (not the first time) I did not place level 1 captains on my ships. This is extremely common practice. Level 1 captains just take up limited table space without adding anything to the game. People do it at all the stores I have been to. Before we began the judge mentioned that my build was illegal, because it did not have level 1 captains. I thought this was very odd. I borrowed level 1 captains, and played. He listed this as a reason to the store manager.

I took 2/3 of a 3 month event, and the judge once again changed the rules on how the grand prize would be awarded. Before we began I specifically covered that concern. The judge said that it would depend if there was a normal prize for the winner of month 3. There is always a normal prize for the last month in an event. The prize kit for this event, I would wager would be about $30 (the normal kit), maybe $40 as it had 4-ships in it, and not the usual 3. The reason given for the first organized play 6-month event did not apply, and it did not matter on weather or not there was a normal prize. The guy just does not want me to win the prize.
 
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One guy blew up and threatened to punch me, and the judge said that he felt like punching me as well. He listed this as a reason to the store manager.
Okay . . . the logistics of the tournaments aside, nobody should be allowed to threaten anybody else. I'd report that judge if I were you. His belief that you cheated does not make such conduct appropriate.
 
I had a somewhat similar experience in this online Godfather game, where a few people were pissed because in the respect and building tournament, I knocked them down a few places in the rankings.

It's not my fault that I had just started the game a couple of days ago and was working hard to get to the necessary levels to train the more deadly and elite troops in the game. I happen to have won a few thousand of the second to greatest troops you could get in the game, Johnny Laws, and it's not like I was gloating or anything. Hell I even helped a few friends out by attacking some high level Cityscapes to help boost their resources rate by 50 to 100 % :/

A few days later, I made a couple of mistakes and have less than a thousand of those troops left lol I attacked a Murder Incorporate level 3 (TWICE) by mistake and lost a lot of troops like that. I also a ton of power which is basically a players troop count in the game, I went down from 17K back down to 3K ... Oh well, next new server I'm going to join right-a-way to be one of the top players there lol

These players who were knocked back in the tournament meanwhile, called me all sorts of names like "Diamond cheater" or "Diamond player" which means I only came in 10th place because I spent a little money in the tournament.

No! I was busy upgrading buildings and doing researching while these same people were busy blabbing away in the chat room or talking the usual **** to each other. :/
 
These elite troops I won also helped me gain a lot of resources and things to get to the necessary levels to train the Pulitory (or whatever their called) troops.
 
How exactly does one cheat at a table top type game? I mean, you have the judge watching you, and the other player, so where would cheating come into play here, it is not like you can just move your pieces illegally without being spotted, are they claiming you are switching cards in your sleeves or using loaded dice?
 
How exactly does one cheat at a table top type game? I mean, you have the judge watching you, and the other player, so where would cheating come into play here, it is not like you can just move your pieces illegally without being spotted, are they claiming you are switching cards in your sleeves or using loaded dice?

Mostly I think they are tired of loosing. Winning 7/10 times is rather an anomaly.

I won up to 6 times due to luck of the draw (one of the contributing factors). This is not how normally the game is played, but we randomly selected one ship each, and built a fleet of 100-points including that ship. I got combat viable ships every time, and my opponents were not that lucky. Some of the ships are really never used in competition.

Another factor was that I won 3/5 tournaments going into tournament 6 for the grand prize. The judge changed the rules so I would not win, just about, automatically. I was rather stressed over this slight, and used the wrong movement dial. Now I agree that this is something that I could have been disqualified for, but it was a mistake. He did not think there was anything fishy about changing the rules to make sure I would not win automatically. I offered to buy another prize, and re-run the tournament. The offer was not accepted.

The judge them pointed out several other mistakes that were laughable, one per tournament.

Here is what I wrote the judge on the other two other things he mentioned.

"Using the Martok 8 token in error when I should have been using the Martok 9 token . . . before any dice were rolled. I am the one who pointed this out. Not to have pointed this out would have been "cheating". Quite a laughable incident. I would wager hard cash this being called "cheating" would be laughed at on BoardGameGeek.Com or any at other venue."

"Not using level 1 captain cards, and captain chits. It is rather a common practice. In any event I used level 1 captain cards when asked, and you said it was fine not to use level 1 captain chits. Again I would wager cold hard cash that this being labeled as "cheating" would be laughed at on BoardGameGeek.Com or any other venue."

A judge from another venue has commented that he tried to play at this store once, but got a bad vibe that he was an unwelcome outsider. I also play at ~7 other places, and never have problems.
 
Here is what I wrote the owner of the 9-store chain:

John,
[1] Please note that I have [Asperger's] (high functioning Autism, with a high IQ), and my written communication often comes off as harsh. It is not my intention to sound harsh, but only to present the facts in such a way as that I can better understand the issues at hand, as well as express my thoughts. The circumstances I find myself in are stressful, and unwanted. This email I suspect is longer than one would tend to be inclined to read. Please feel free to call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx for more affable verbal communication. I also have ADD and Dyslexia. I am more than willing to bring in my diagnosis for you to verify.

[2] Alex insist that making a mistake is cheating. I have looked up the definition, and its synonyms. The notion that cheating can occur without intent is not the correct use of the word. I have asked a person with BA in English, an English professor, an editor, a game designer, and some other friends, and they all said that cheating requires willful intent. Having ADD, and Dyslexia I find the notion of equating a mistake to cheating to be extraordinarily offensive. A judge should know the definition of cheat.

[3] Alex has made the claim, and I have heard it verbatim from Rick, that one cannot be good at something and make a mistake. Rick seems like an intelligent, understanding man, and I think the words were not his own. I do not understand this logic. It does not take much effort to find a multitude of examples of professionals who have made errors, much less an amateur playing with plastic models on the weekends. The notion is quite ludicrous. Additionally people make mistakes under stress. Those [with] dyslexia, and ADD are more prone to make mistakes under stress.

[4a] As previously mentioned in our phone conversation Alex changes the rules, and provides a moving target. This is quite stressful. He does not follow the official FAQ. Not knowing what is legal, or how it works makes planning difficult. After winning 3/5 in a series going into the 6th scenario I would have won the series and the grand prize simply by showing up. To be told that the rules for awarding the grand prize were changed was unsettling. I was told that they were changed to make sure the kit was paid for via admission.

[4b] I specifically asked about the rules for awarding the grand prize in the second multi-month event. I received a response of something to the fact "it depends if the final kit has a normal and a grand prize". Of course every kit has a normal prize. I was a bit distraught when Alex told me that my wins did not count towards the grand-prize, again. This kit with the grand prize was a normal-sized ship, and I would wager not nearly as expensive as the DS9 kit mentioned in 4a. The grand prize was to go to the winner of that months tournament, and apparently the normal prize was to go to the second-place winner.

[5] Alex had an odd system where we would build a 100-point fleet, randomly select a ship, and rebuild a 100-point fleet with the randomly selected ship. (a) I randomly, and consistently drew combat viable ships, while my opponents often drew ships that were often non-competitive, (b) I planned for this wonkiness by making my builds point-efficient no-thrills small bundle of points that were easy to work with, and (c) by building and re-building the fleets under time, and competitive stress was defiantly a contributing factor in the error I made.

[6] I made a mistake that I suppose could have been a disqualifying event, but it was not cheating. I called out the error. I do not believe it affected play. I made moves assuming I had the correct manipulative. When approached with the issue by Alex I volunteered to re-run the tournament. Alex's solution to the dilemma, was to tell me to let it go. It seems as if this is a solution he no longer agrees with.

[7] Your store runs ST:AW events later than all other stores I attend. As such I have usually played the scenario 2-4 times by then. This provides an distinct advantage. Additionally it would seem that I log a considerably more time playing this game time than the other players at your venue. As such I have won ~7/10 of the tournaments.

[8] While not a genius, my IQ is in the 90%, I have a tactical mind, and I am apparently good at judging distance (an essential component of the game). I have entered tournaments for games that I have never played, and have won, on multiple occasions (HEX, WEG's Star Wars Miniature Battles, and BattleTech HeroClix stand out).

[9] The reasons verbally submitted to me for my request to not play anymore at your venue is quite unsubstantial, and quite laughable. I trust you can call up other stores that host Star Trek: Attack Wing, and ask them if these reasons are substantial. I have no doubt that you will find that they are, as mentioned in my letter to Alex, laughable.

[10] Tom threatening to punch me was unacceptable [Tom's personal reasons edited out]. Alex's comment that he wanted to punch me was also unacceptable. As judge he should have handled the situation differently, and not have said those words to me. I do not appreciate being bullied, and being bullied only set the notion of winning to spite these words firmly in my mind.

[11] The gentlemen at your store in Wheaton are upset that an outsider is winning the prizes. I am disappointed that they are lowering themselves to this level in order to remove a skilled opponent. There are definitely means to communicate the desire that are not offensive. This method is wanting, and hurtful. Randomly distributing all prizes would have been preferred to this heartache. I have lost sleep over this catastrophe.

[12] It is quite likely that they are misreading the traits associated with Aspbergers. A lack of eye contact, and awkward body language can be a disconcerting circumstance to be in if one navigates social situations primarily via body language for judgment on another. Unfortunately this is not the first, or the last such event I will be subjected to. It is quite tiresome.

[13] I have a desire to confront these bullies non-violently.

Thank you for your time,
Rich Gray
 
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This is a good letter, but you ought to highlight the fact that you were physically threatened. I don't care if "Tom" is going through a divorce. That's completely unacceptable on any level. (And it's Asperger's, not Aspberger's.)
 
This is a good letter, but you ought to highlight the fact that you were physically threatened. I don't care if "Tom" is going through a divorce. That's completely unacceptable on any level. (And it's Asperger's, not Aspberger's.)

Spelling, oh how I hate you. Evidently my spelling skills are in the 18%.
 
Oh, don't mind me. Writing is just my thing. That wasn't the only mistake I noticed, but I figured it was the most important since you're trying to convince these people that you have Asperger's.
 
Oh, don't mind me. Writing is just my thing. That wasn't the only mistake I noticed, but I figured it was the most important since you're trying to convince these people that you have Asperger's.

I can write a paper at the graduate level, and get an A with very little effort. Thank god for computers, and spellcheck.

However I once took a 100 level science class, studied for the midterm 9-hours, and got a B.
 
Before I forget, I don't think the mention of Tom's divorce should be included. Frankly, that's not your business. Stick to what you know, which is the fact that you were unfairly banned from future tournaments and physically threatened.
 
This is a good letter, but you ought to highlight the fact that you were physically threatened. I don't care if "Tom" is going through a divorce. That's completely unacceptable on any level. (And it's Asperger's, not Aspberger's.)

I had a 6'4" friend who has studied some martial arts with me. If there was a time to be assaulted by some lunatic, it was than. Every year or two I seem to piss off some alpha male to the point they snap. I think they get upset when I do not pick up on their non-verbal attempts to intimidate me.

Mainly this experience just made me want to win more, via preparing more.
 
Well, all I can tell you is that you're doing the right thing by composing this letter. Did you already send it?
 
I sent it, unfortunately I too found some mistakes. The store is going to give me a gift card for the value of the grand-prize.
 

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