I need to quit bad habits, how do you deal with anxiety and indecision?

[Jumpback]

The issue for me is that I am completely fine if I just lay down and binge watch movies or YouTube videos or google things and I don’t do any bad habits, it hardly even occurs to me to do bad habits, but when I get up and try to accomplish things I become a nervous wreck. Like even just taking a shower and then going to the grocery story results in pacing, going outside to smoke, maybe drinking a couple beers to calm myself down

I have been diagnosed with anxiety disorders and adhd, but it’s almost not that, because I am fine if say I have to go somewhere and someone else organizes all the activities and tells me what I am supposed to do. It’s like my prefrontal cortex (decision making center of the brain) gets overwhelmed by trying to make basic normal everyday decisions about what to do. I went on vacation once with these people and others kept getting mad at this girl for planning and organizing too much, but I was glad to just be pointed in the right direction and told what to do. My ex-girlfriend complained that she felt like she had to mother me and keep telling me what I am supposed to be doing, but, in a way, I kind of need that.

It’s not that I can’t accomplish daily tasks, it’s things that come natural to others about organizing their day and getting things done and organizing are a lot harder for me than others. So I go through these things that just seem strange to other people.

I’m not really sure if this is autistic thing or a personality thing or something else.

So, I’m kind of just curious if anyone can relate and if you have found anything that works for you calm down that doesn’t involve stupid bad habits

 

[Matthias]

The issue for me is that I am completely fine if I just lay down and binge watch movies or YouTube videos or google things and I don’t do any bad habits, it hardly even occurs to me to do bad habits, but when I get up and try to accomplish things I become a nervous wreck. Like even just taking a shower and then going to the grocery story results in pacing, going outside to smoke, maybe drinking a couple beers to calm myself down

I have been diagnosed with anxiety disorders and adhd, but it’s almost not that, because I am fine if say I have to go somewhere and someone else organizes all the activities and tells me what I am supposed to do. It’s like my prefrontal cortex (decision making center of the brain) gets overwhelmed by trying to make basic normal everyday decisions about what to do. I went on vacation once with these people and others kept getting mad at this girl for planning and organizing too much, but I was glad to just be pointed in the right direction and told what to do. My ex-girlfriend complained that she felt like she had to mother me and keep telling me what I am supposed to be doing, but, in a way, I kind of need that.

It’s not that I can’t accomplish daily tasks, it’s things that come natural to others about organizing their day and getting things done and organizing are a lot harder for me than others. So I go through these things that just seem strange to other people.

I’m not really sure if this is autistic thing or a personality thing or something else.

So, I’m kind of just curious if anyone can relate and if you have found anything that works for you calm down that doesn’t involve stupid bad habits

Did you watch the videos I linked to earlier?

Those videos are about using CBT for problems common in autistic people (anxiety, depression, and understanding people better). I suffered from anxiety for most of my life and those videos helped me greatly. They were created for children but were more helpful for me than anything else I found online. The first video is less than 6 minutes long and will give you an idea about what the next 7 videos in the series are about.

Don't just take my word for it. Here's what the Mayo Clinic recommends for anxiety:

"The two main treatments for anxiety disorders are psychotherapy and medications... Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is the most effective form of psychotherapy for anxiety disorders. Generally a short-term treatment, CBT focuses on teaching you specific skills to improve your symptoms and gradually return to the activities you've avoided because of anxiety." Anxiety disorders - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic

The reason CBT is the most effective treatment for anxiety as well as depression and many other emotional problems is because our thoughts are what causes our emotions which means the only way to get rid of depression and anxiety for good is to change the way you think. Medications are only short-term fixes that temporarily suppress your problems. The best you can get on a forum is quick fixes that may help you cope a little but won't make your anxiety go away.

 

[Jumpback]

Did you watch the videos I linked to earlier?

Those videos are about using CBT for problems common in autistic people (anxiety, depression, and understanding people better). I suffered from anxiety for most of my life and those videos helped me greatly. They were created for children but were more helpful for me than anything else I found online. The first video is less than 6 minutes long and will give you an idea about what the next 7 videos in the series are about.

Don't just take my word for it. Here's what the Mayo Clinic recommends for anxiety:


The reason CBT is the most effective treatment for anxiety as well as depression and many other emotional problems is because our thoughts are what causes our emotions which means the only way to get rid of depression and anxiety for good is to change the way you think. Medications are only short-term fixes that temporarily suppress your problems. The best you can get on a forum is quick fixes that may help you cope a little but won't make your anxiety go away.

Thanks, I had watched the children’s video you sent before and I found it to be very wise. I also watched a video that I think you posted on another thread where the speakers child couldn’t breathe. I just kind of just feeling embarrassed about that other thread and I didn’t want to keep it going

I think you said you got over depression on your own in like 40 days or something?

I guess CBT was the thing I was going to try first, but I kind of wondered about other things. Like somewhere I remember someone saying that anxious people have strange tendencies to be hypnotized? I have also repeatedly tried to build a happy place in my head where I am at a lake when I was a kid and just feel relaxation, but I don’t stick with this

 

[Thinx]

Sounds like you are experiencing poor Executive function which is indeed a common problem linked to ADHD and ASD, and it's effects along with other hurdles are making you anxious. CBT can be helpful for anxiety, and also potentially helps you to have structures to process your worries, and think more clearly. There may be quite a variety of strategies that you could find that help you with poor executive function, for example, making a list of steps to take when you feel anxious about organising yourself to go out.

Your list could be something like, 1. Take some time to get ready, no need to hurry. 2. Make a list of what I need from the shop. 3. Decide the best time to shop. 4. Decide how long I want to be out. 5. Put my shopping list bag and wallet plus whatever I will need, into my bag ready. Etc, depending what steps will work for you.

You could have go to lists for any tasks that are challenging. I use lists a lot, many of us here do. Also reminders for myself, you can have a paper diary or use your phone to set these up. Our brains are differently wired in this area, so we have to work around it. Try googling, poor Executive function in ADHD to find ideas. But everyone is different, so it depends what works best for you, to get around these difficulties.

 

[Fino]

Maybe identify specific causes. Is it possible you have a tremendous fear of failure? As well as a lack of confidence? Most of what you said sounds like manifestations of root issues.

 

[onlything]

Definitely can relate, I have problems with creating a healthy routine and organisation of basic functions and tasks as well. Executive function impairment, as others mentioned.

In general, binge watching TV and searching the Net aren't exactly good habits to have and if done too often they can do quite a bit of damage to your functioning as well. It's a form of escapism, first and foremost, and while it can help with anxiety in the moment, it ends up making your brain complacent, can make you more easily distracted and influence your executive function in a wrong way. Each area of a brain is like a muscle, you need to use it regularly for it to be strong. Cutting yourself off from the reality causes you to stop using much of the areas of the brain that allow you to organise things and so your brain gets less capable of dealing with these kinds of tasks.

It can get better with simple and small daily steps. Organisation is a habit like any other. You can learn to make plans and keep up with them.

You can start with spending 5 minutes every day for planning different activities that make you anxious - each step, even the smallest. It will already make your brain start working, as well as allow you to create templates of behaviour that could become a basis of your routines. It will also calm you down since you will feel like you have a bit more control over things.

For example, write down bullet points for any kind of an appointment you may have, like 1) washing your face/hands/taking a shower, 2) choosing an outfit, 3) putting on an outfit, 4) collect keys and documents, 5) put on shoes... etc. Don't rush, don't feel guilty about the little steps - we are like children in any new skill we're trying to create and we need to learn to walk slowly at first before we can learn to run.

Maybe try out short 2-min daily meditation as well. It can calm down anxiety very nicely if done regularly, or even in the moment at times.

 

[Pats]

I can relate. I've never been diagnosed with ADHD or OCD, but have been diagnosed with autism, generalized and social anxiety, PTSD, depression, which I believe go along with the autism. Or caused from the difficulties we have due to autism.

I'm always happier at home and every step taken to go out adds to my anxiety. It often even starts the night before I know I'm having to go out somewhere. Often times I'll postpone going - 'oh I can wait another day' until I can't wait another day. As I was reading your post - I was picturing myself pacing, smoking (only I don't go outside) while deciding whether I should do this or not. And I also prefer others make the decisions. Mostly. There is one exception to that. I want to and can plan a trip out west down to the hour and I have before and the other person very happy with the outcome. But that's one of my things - special interest? Going out to eat - you decide, as long as it's not Mexican (unless they also serve burgers), I'll find something I want or will eat.

And now adding all this other stuff due to Corona. Do I have my mask, hand sanitizer, wipes for the carts, etc. Wearing the mask when I'm in the grocery store - I always had a hard time breathing with anything over my face, or even too high on my neck (like a turtleneck). Anyway - it's quite exhausting. And I realized fairly recently that when I'm anxious I tend to not breathe if I'm at all nervous, which then makes me short of breathe. So the mask is no help there, either.

I'm going today - driving 1 1/2 hours to meet my daughter and her kids (which I've not seen since Jan). Going to get food and sit outside and have a picnic lunch (social distancing of course). I'm tempted to make a trash bag cover so I can give them all big hugs. My grandson recently had pneumonia - unable to test because he kept pulling away. Next week I'm seeing other grandkids (a drive by birthday), but I will stop and visit from a distance. And they've had some sick and my daughter exposed. So, you see, I would not want to risk carrying anything from one to the other so I will continue to social distance for their sakes. All other cases I'm liking the social distancing.

 

[Ken S.]

Going out to eat - you decide, as long as it's not Mexican

I WAS going to invite you over for dinner but it's Green chili and sour cream chicken enchiladas.

 

[Matthias]

Thanks, I had watched the children’s video you sent before and I found it to be very wise. I also watched a video that I think you posted on another thread where the speakers child couldn’t breathe. I just kind of just feeling embarrassed about that other thread and I didn’t want to keep it going

I think you said you got over depression on your own in like 40 days or something?

I guess CBT was the thing I was going to try first, but I kind of wondered about other things. Like somewhere I remember someone saying that anxious people have strange tendencies to be hypnotized? I have also repeatedly tried to build a happy place in my head where I am at a lake when I was a kid and just feel relaxation, but I don’t stick with this

My situation was easier to treat because I only had a few beliefs to correct. I felt rejected when I was a baby. As a result of that belief, I became depressed which made me totally withdrawn and not interested in other people at all for most of my childhood. It also caused me to think there must be something wrong with me, that I was different than other people. Since feeling rejected is a traumatic experience for a baby and I felt I was rejected because I was different, my mind associated being different with being rejected which made me afraid to say or do anything that might cause people to think I was weird. Because of that, I lived in my own world my entire life until last year. I never dated or had any friends. After watching the videos, I realized I wasn't rejected, that people were judging my actions, which they misunderstood, and not judging me as a person. My anxiety affected my thinking and caused me to act different which made other people uncomfortable which I misinterpreted as rejection.

After I watched the videos, I made a list of my beliefs that caused anxiety and depression, checked and found they were all based on cognitive distortions, and formed new more accurate beliefs.

Beliefs I've had my entire life:
1. The belief that I was different than other people (black and white thinking)
2. The belief that I was inferior to "normal" people
3. That people rejected me because I was different

New beliefs:
1. I'm a human being with unique traits and problems like everyone else.
2. As a human being, I am equal and just as worthy as everyone else. Everyone has problems and weaknesses so that doesn't make me inferior.
3. Other people are misunderstanding my words and actions and judging them and not me as a person.

After I did that, my depression and anxiety was greatly reduced. The "feeling good" book by Dr. Burns confirmed my experience. He attributed depression due to low self esteem caused by negative distorted beliefs about oneself and feeling hopeless about the future. My new beliefs made me feel equal and hopeful about the future.

Anxiety is often due to fearing being judged, criticized, or making a bad decision. When I realized I wasn't being rejected, that my mistakes weren't a big deal, I had much less anxiety.

If I was less autistic, I would have had far more social interactions and probably would have formed a bunch of other cognitive distortions to cope, mask symptoms, and adapt which would have made it take longer to overcome my problems.

One tip for anxiety - Many times stress can cause people to magnify their problems, to make their decisions seem more important than they really are. Ask yourself what you're afraid of, what's the worse that can happen if you do something, and how likely that is to happen based on past experience. Remind yourself how anxiety makes you feel worse and take a risk if it's unlikely that anything really bad will happen.

 

[Pats]

I WAS going to invite you over for dinner but it's Green chili and sour cream chicken enchiladas.

Well, wait - I do like the sour cream chicken enchiladas. I wouldn't have to eat the green chili would I?
It's everything else - all basically the same, just put together differently, with all that red sauce, hot stuff, salsa, lime and (shoot) what's that spice that's on everything? Oh cilantro.

 

[Ken S.]

Oh I understand, cilantro (Just typing the word makes me gag) is the reason I don't eat at Mexican Restaurants. The green chili sauce I use is mild and I hate lime. Dinner is at 5:00 pm Central time, Don't be late!

 

[Ken S.]

Sorry OP didn't mean to go off topic. For me everything I do is planned and I have to just force myself to plow though the brain fog and chronic vertigo. I really don't know how to explain how I do it other than forced will power until I hit overload. Then I have to sleep it off and reset the clock.

 

[Jumpback]

I can relate. I've never been diagnosed with ADHD or OCD, but have been diagnosed with autism, generalized and social anxiety, PTSD, depression, which I believe go along with the autism. Or caused from the difficulties we have due to autism.

I'm always happier at home and every step taken to go out adds to my anxiety. It often even starts the night before I know I'm having to go out somewhere. Often times I'll postpone going - 'oh I can wait another day' until I can't wait another day. As I was reading your post - I was picturing myself pacing, smoking (only I don't go outside) while deciding whether I should do this or not. And I also prefer others make the decisions. Mostly. There is one exception to that. I want to and can plan a trip out west down to the hour and I have before and the other person very happy with the outcome. But that's one of my things - special interest? Going out to eat - you decide, as long as it's not Mexican (unless they also serve burgers), I'll find something I want or will eat.

And now adding all this other stuff due to Corona. Do I have my mask, hand sanitizer, wipes for the carts, etc. Wearing the mask when I'm in the grocery store - I always had a hard time breathing with anything over my face, or even too high on my neck (like a turtleneck). Anyway - it's quite exhausting. And I realized fairly recently that when I'm anxious I tend to not breathe if I'm at all nervous, which then makes me short of breathe. So the mask is no help there, either.

I'm going today - driving 1 1/2 hours to meet my daughter and her kids (which I've not seen since Jan). Going to get food and sit outside and have a picnic lunch (social distancing of course). I'm tempted to make a trash bag cover so I can give them all big hugs. My grandson recently had pneumonia - unable to test because he kept pulling away. Next week I'm seeing other grandkids (a drive by birthday), but I will stop and visit from a distance. And they've had some sick and my daughter exposed. So, you see, I would not want to risk carrying anything from one to the other so I will continue to social distance for their sakes. All other cases I'm liking the social distancing.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever taken a Myers Briggs Personality test? There is a current thread about this, or here is another test
Personality test based on C. Jung and I. Briggs Myers type theory

I test as INTP which is sort the absent minded professor type.

If you have ever seen the 1961 Disney film, the “The Absent Minded Professor” with Fred MacMurray where he keeps forgetting his wedding, it’s a little like this for me but a lot less cute and a lot more unhealthy and a greater problem because he can get up and take a shower and go work on his experiments without becoming sort of a nervous wreck.

The last letter in the test, which is either a P or J is sort of about you feel more comfortable making decisions and sticking with them or if you hate to make decisions and prefer to have everything stay open and flexible. A lot of people who are always late and do things at the last minute are often perceivers (The P). I will sometimes wait until the last minute because there are less options at the last minute, so less to waffle back and forth about and be indecisive about and get anxious trying to make a decision

But with me, it seems to go way beyond just normal personality things. Like normal people, even with the same personality traits, don’t become a nervous wreck if they have to go buy a birthday card for someone, they just go do it

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

I second Onlything & Thinx' suggestions.

Binge watching addles the brain and reinforces passivity.

If there's a subject you "always wanted" to know more about, try the other screen for variety (this one). At the moment I'm into science & history.

But when I first put down the bottles I spotted aeroplanes by internet. I learned a lot of technology, war and economics. And they are so aesthetic.

When a task or errand beckons:

1. make it fun

2. chunk it down to 90 second segments (you read that correct - second)

I forget which famous scientist had 12 desks which he would spend about a minute at in turn, each with a different project.

(I had learned to multitask fairly productively, when I worked)

3. between segments, say to yourself how you enjoy being you, there is a roof, maybe you'll wake up tomorrow with some more glittering achievements (no sarcasm) at your fingertips.

4. you must have a favourite food however simple (for me, mild cheese). What a kick you got out of having some earlier and that it will be in your basket again soon.

(For me, every piece of cheese is so unique)

5. Think up jokes and write them down. I have written ultra-short stories of only four lines, and poems with three. I also collect fun names.

6. Do something you've done before, without painting yourself into any corners about how often you'll repeat that. I made pancakes because for some weeks I've been ensuring I have plenty of flour, milk and eggs (I use lots of milk & eggs anyway). If they break up that's just part of the fun.

7. Now the home help doesn't come, I've the quick way of cleaning, and the ultra quick. Especially when I do one room at a "time". Or just one corner of floor. Or half a worktop.

8. Wilkinson's has got cheap, old fashioned liquids & powders to soak shirts and dinner things. Just rinse plenty.

That's how I get round "exposure anxiety". Just translate that into jumpbackese!

 

[Ken S.]

You mean this test that was made by people who weren't in the science community?
Is Myers–Briggs scientific? • Skeptical Science
It has zero credibility.

 

[Pats]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever taken a Myers Briggs Personality test? There is a current thread about this, or here is another test
HumanMetrics - online relationships, personality and entrepreneur tests, personal solution center

I test as INTP which is sort the absent minded professor type.

If you have ever seen the 1961 Disney film, the “The Absent Minded Professor” with Fred MacMurray where he keeps forgetting his wedding, it’s a little like this for me but a lot less cute and a lot more unhealthy and a greater problem because he can get up and take a shower and go work on his experiments without becoming sort of a nervous wreck.

The last letter in the test, which is either a P or J is sort of about you feel more comfortable making decisions and sticking with them or if you hate to make decisions and prefer to have everything stay open and flexible. A lot of people who are always late and do things at the last minute are often perceives (The P). I will sometimes wait until the last minute because there are less options at the last minute, so less to waffle back and forth about and be indecisive about and get anxious trying to make a decision

But with me, it seems to go way beyond just normal personality things. Like normal people, even with the same personality traits, don’t become a nervous wreck if they have to go buy a birthday card for someone, they just go do it

I have taken the Meyers Briggs - can never remember what letters I am, but I remember it was 1% of the population. lol
I'm always early to anywhere because I don't want the other person to have to wait on me. And I'm early - part of my stressing - I get ready and get that part over with way ahead of time the I wait. (Kinda like I'm doing now - leaving at noon and been ready for a while). But it helps separate the stress and anxiety - one step at a time and having plenty of time to do it. And everyone who knows me knows not to make plans too early - has to be after noon to give me time to do my thing. I can not just jump up and get ready and go somewhere. Another factor might be that I don't usually wake up until after 10. lol

I think the reason for preferring someone else make the decision is also not wanting the other person to be disappointed - I'm fine - want you to be happy. It's not that I'm indecisive. If you let me choose, it's going to be somewhere with hamburgers - McDonalds if that's one of the options. lol

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

Yes I was INTP (when I last looked)!

I say to myself I'll get my mild cheese AND a birthday card. I always try to have lots of things I can put off longer, then I can ensure what's more urgent isn't too much.

Alternatively I do half of the urgent things & am extra pleased only half of them are hanging over me. In practice, it's not that cynical. Once I got used to scuttling along the road, achieving something utilitarian, I started looking forward to next time. (I don't know whether your schedule is stricter than mine.)

 

[Pats]

Oh - don't feel bad for binge watching and being on the computer a lot. Unless I'm doing something, I'm sitting at my computer. Before computers, I could not just sit and watch a movie or tv program - had to be doing something else and usually sat with pen and paper in hand, writing, drawing, scribbling or whatever. Now it's just that the computer has taken the place of pen and paper.
A lot of people like to sit and read books and can sit for hours reading a book. I don't, have never in my life enjoyed reading books and personally feel it's no different than watching the story on tv. I've been yelled at for wasting time doing a jigsaw puzzle by someone who sits and crochets 24/7. Tell me - what's the difference? The more tech we have, the more time we have (compare hand plowing and gardening to live and bringing water from outside to wash dishes, or wash out dirty diapers, or laundering cloth diapers and now we have disposable, etc, etc) We have more time and I strongly resent anyone who tries to tell me what I need to be doing with that extra time or judges how another person spends their time. It's a pet peeve of mine. My brother and my dad were always doing that. They think if it's not something THEY would want to do, it's a waste of time. My brother used to practically live on the lake in his boat and would judge me for not wanting to do that. Everyone wants to control everyone.

K - now I gotta go.

 

[Jumpback]

You mean this test that was made by people who weren't in the science community?
Is Myers–Briggs scientific? • Skeptical Science
It has zero credibility.

I’m skeptical of the skeptics on this, but I also see their point.

Like, honestly, any test that categorizes personality on things is going to have some value. Like the first letter is extroversion or introversion, and almost everybody seems to believe that this is a real thing.

I’ve also found the test to be very helpful and there is this thing about functions which seems to work to rather well if you don’t take it too literally. My only long term friend took the test with me and we tested very close on everything. And we clearly mesh very well and have a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses. Like he hates making decisions, too, but he isn’t autistic spectrum like I probably am.

But then I have met other people who test the same as me that aren’t very much like me at all. I think the main problem with the test is it tries to make people one of 16 different types, while ignore just how far people test on each thing. Like it reports someone who tests as 1% introvert the same as someone who tests as 67% introvert as both being simply “introverts”. It is obviously not true that a 1% introvert is going to work like a 67% introvert, so I guess I see the test as helpful and well meaning, especially since it doesn’t make one type bad and another type good, but more like it’s just far too simplistic and unscientific in the way it’s used to be particularly helpful in science and so on

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

Ken, firstly don't take any notice of most of the road shows that don't explain it properly. They should be telling you how to put extra work into your weaker areas, for example I gradually got a trifle more extrovert but only because I wanted to. Secondly you give you the mark, someone else doesn't: it helps you to not remain vague about yourself. And of course you can evolve (mildly) if you want. And thirdly precisely because you input your self-knowledge into the structure, it isn't Jungian. And fourthly people shouldn't be using it as an excuse to force you into roles that don't suit you.

Based on other tests I've got a good instinct as resource investigator, monitor-evaluator and spatial thinker. And I'm at the red lights and bells end of the completer-finisher scale.

One could piggy back on self-knowledge when developing one's hobbies or choosing studies too (including self-homeschooling).

 

[Thinx]

I'm INTP. Any categories are going to generalise when there are relatively few compared to the number of people in the population to be categorised. This divides people into 16 types so at that level it's going to be broad brush. However the individual answered then scores it themselves, and the different scores on the 4 components are also significant. I think it's a useful tool.

Being so called scientific about personality is something of a contradiction. What would that look like? This is just a guideline, but it's quite a helpful tool I d say.