I guess this explains why I couldn't get the school staff to listen

[Kit]

Back when I was a kid I was always treated different by adults at school regarding rules and I saw the double standards. They never batted an eye how other kids acted and then on another forum, someone used this quote here


"The "other side does it too" or "both sides are fine people" moral equivalence is a false argument."

So I guess that explains why I could never get the staff to understand how they were being bias against me and treating me different than NT kids. When I kept telling them "other kids do it too" it came off that way to them perhaps. So I just got more and more frustrated and I think they got frustrated with me too to a point they decided I had a behavior disorder and wanted me in a behavior program, this is what got me diagnosed with ASD in 1997, this incident here at my school. Now with this diagnoses, my school could no longer put me in that class or I would have started to act like the other kids in that class and mimic them thinking it's normal behavior and other kids do it too so it's normal. It was deja vu for my parents because when I was in a self contained class when I was 6 and 7, I acted like other kids in that class because I thought it was normal behavior. I thought this is how we act in school. My parents found out so they put me in mainstream with NT kids so they could model normal behavior for me so I could copy them and learn appropriate behavior.

I realize now the staff punishing me and stuff was maybe their way to teach me appropriate behavior but instead all it did was it made me feel victimized and bullied so I fought. My mom called it abuse when she found out I was correct all along and there were double standards at my school. There was Kit rules and different rules for all the other kids. Even my therapist was pissed. I was seeing how other kids were acting and here I was getting into trouble for being like them and I felt bullied and picked on. Saying "other kids do that too so why am I the only one in trouble, punish them too so I am not being discriminated here" didn't do anything because they acted deaf about it. They ignored my words. Then they decided I had a behavior issue and wanted me in a behavior class but my parents knew this would make it worse for me because I would act worse because I would learn that behavior and think "this is what we do in this class."

My parents wanted to avoid this and didn't want me to act like I have a behavior disorder and they were worried this would have destroyed me and my development and I would have been doomed as an adult.

My mom has blamed some of my issues on me being in a self contained class and thought it made me regress and stunt my social development. She is convinced I would have ended up being more autistic if I was kept in that class. It's as if she thinks autism is learned through environment and that it's caused by environment.

Now how would you express someone is being biased against you and treating you different than NTs without using the "they do it too" argument?


Me being diagnosed like this because of my school made me skeptical of my autism diagnoses and I felt it was fraudulent. I am still convinced I wouldn't have been diagnosed if they had just listened to me, listened to my parents, and follow my IEP than trying to do things their way and instead had created a system for me that worked against me.

 

[Thinx]

Schools quite often seem to get it wrong for individuals I think. They often want young people to fit in and not disagree, because there's apparently no time for individual behaviours or discussion about priorities. Priorities have already been set, and the school may just expect people to do as they are told.

It sounds like you got into trouble for behaviours others were also doing, and also that others didn't get in trouble? I do think that autism does make us less able to notice cultural norms, rules and expectations, so in that way maybe you do fit the diagnosis?

Do you mean, you would prefer not to have the diagnosis, because it's wrong, or you think you are autistic, but wish you hadn't been diagnosed as such?

Your school sounds unhelpful and it sounds like an unpleasant time that stretched over years, sorry you went through that.

 

[Kit]

Do you mean, you would prefer not to have the diagnosis, because it's wrong, or you think you are autistic, but wish you hadn't been diagnosed as such?

Very difficult to answer because my mom keeps contradicting my diagnoses. I wish I never knew about it because I had finally accepted the fact I was different in junior high and I didn't need a diagnoses for that. I was diagnosed in 6th grade but didn't even know what it was then.

She says I was only diagnosed to get me through school, told me I got diagnosed so she and my father could get power over my school, said I just have anxiety and then she turns around and says stuff like "it was the best diagnoses for you" "you are a atypical aspie" and "you are on the spectrum" and then it's "it didn't fit, you were just you." Which is it mom? I either have it or I don't.

Now I am convinced that if my psychiatrist had seen more patients like me, he would have given it a name and it would have been named after him and I would have that diagnoses instead.

It also doesn't help when I have read articles online about doctors purposely misdiagnosing autism in kids so they can get services. Then seeing anger about it and it makes me wonder "am I one of these kids?" Of course my husband doesn't believe this and thinks if a doctor does that, they would lose their license and maybe that article was written by someone because that is how they feel, not that it's true and to not believe everything I read online.

Then there are other disorders out there that overlap with autism and hearing how autism is often misdiagnosed makes me think "am I one of them? What if I am just quirky? What if I was just socially awkward instead?"

But I also feel my psychiatrist basically took all my diagnoses I was ever given through out my childhood and made it be all autism so I am not carrying all these labels on my medical file.

I once talked about this before and it's made people uncomfortable so I know this is a Voldemort topic hence the lack of responses and lack of likes and other stuff to my OP. On WP someone was convinced I was posting these sort of topics as a veiled attack on them. (I was shocked and thought, "is that what makes me one of those "bullies" users always talk about?") Same as when I was wondering how can one tell between a burnout or just having an anxiety crises like I do. Every time I thought I have had one, it would only turn out it was just very bad anxiety because of a stressful situation I was in. But this was a few years ago and that user doesn't go to the forum anymore anyway.

I wish I could talk to my psychiatrist who diagnosed me so I could get real answers but he retired. I've thought about calling the hospital I was diagnosed at to see if they still have my medical records (since it should be in their computer system) and see what tests were done on me and what he wrote and what my DX papers actually say. I don't remember doing any autism tests many users talk about online when they go for an assessment, I only remember my parents talking to him. But I do have an aspie friend online who managed to get diagnosed without any tests so maybe you don't need to take any assessments to get diagnosed.

 

[Au Naturel]

ASD is a name for it. Quirky and socially awkward are very important diagnostic criteria. And there are misdiagnoses so if you are concerned, the obvious thing is to see a professional and see if they come up with the same thing.

Sometimes we think we are behaving just like everyone else but we actually aren't. One of the most important aspects of autism is that we don't get the subtleties of social interaction. So we do the thing the other kid did but didn't understand the context or couldn't replicate their style. There are situations under which you can do something that under slightly different conditions you cannot. There are also actions that are ok for the cool kids and forbidden to nerds and dweebs. Aspies often don't understand this.

You didn't specify the things you did that got you - but not your fellow students - in trouble.

There is a certain skill in doing things and getting away with them. Say, someone shot a wad of paper at me. They'd never get caught but if I retaliated I'd often get caught.

If I were tattled on, I'd get in trouble and if I did the tattling, I'd get in trouble. All depended on where in the pecking order I stood and I was at the bottom. Every teacher has favorites. Every last one of them. Bias is inevitable.

Simply being well-liked gets you a lot of "get out of jail" free cards. OTOH, another kid might have a history of being argumentative which puts them into a hole. Maybe knowing that you came from a special class put the "mark of Cain" on you, making things even worse.

Kids with ASD are only able to mimic the broadest superficialities of NT kids' behavior. If they could mimic the subtleties then ASD would not be a problem.

 

[Thinx]

Well it is a behavioural diagnosis, and back then, even more so, it sounds like you showed enough of the behaviours that occur in high functioning autism to get diagnosed, as a female too, so it could be right? Or it could would be one of the diagnoses that are close to Aspergers but subtly different?

Could you go for diagnosis again, maybe? To see where you are now and if they still think this? Times have moved on, so perhaps you'd get a different result, they aren't keen to diagnose autism.

 

[Kit]

Or it could would be one of the diagnoses that are close to Aspergers but subtly different?

This sounds more accurate but it would be PDD-NOS. But I am convinced doctors in the Portland area don't like NOS labels so they go with closest match for a diagnoses. I got diagnosed with anorexia in 2007 and I didn't quite fit the criteria so it would mean I had atypical anorexia but got anorexia nervosa diagnoses. That was where I got my ASD diagnoses as well so either a coincidence or doctors here don't like NOS labels. But it would be autism now since they made it all be one after getting rid of the other diagnoses from the DSM.

Often times I think I imagine my symptoms and think they're just normal but then someone notices them and I realize I guess I am not crazy after all. I used to see a therapist in high school and I used to reject everything he said about my diagnoses because if that were true about me, my mom would have mentioned it to me. I also thought he was just making assumptions based off my diagnoses but my husband said that is not true because they are trained and just because I hear online about people being misdiagnosed and then doctors just seeing those symptoms in them that are not there doesn't make it true. They could just be in denial so that is how they feel and to not believe everything I read. Then I remember my mom telling me "you therapist made you mad on purpose so you can get out all those hurt feelings, he wanted you to hate him" so I thought "is that why he blamed everyone on my diagnoses, so I would get mad at him and think of him as stupid?"


I guess if it were not for my school, I would have flew under the radar perhaps. Same as if I got homeschooled instead.

Maybe knowing that you came from a special class put the "mark of Cain" on you, making things even worse.

I often think what if I was just surrounded by narcists at my school so I was being gas lighted the whole time making me think I was different and the teachers were just bullies rather than not just understanding me. I also think the fact I looked normal, my issues were not taken seriously so I was seen as a behavior and didn't follow my IEP so my parents always had to fight fight fight. Times have changed now so schools now get funding for a student so they help that student now than pretend they are "normal." Parents don't have to go for a medical diagnoses to get power over their child's education to force the school. But saying that just makes it sound like the parents bought a diagnoses rather than the kid actually has it.

You didn't specify the things you did that got you - but not your fellow students - in trouble.

I don't really remember. Only thing I remember is the time I was video taped in class in 4th grade and I saw kids doing some silly things on video like stacking a textbook on their head and then in one scene I was sticking my tongue out at my friend and she was doing the same to me but she had her hand over her mouth and I didn't and everyone made a big deal out of it ignoring what she did and ignoring the other goofy things kids did and that boy that stacked a book on his head.

Another time I was drumming my fingers on my notebook and my special ed teacher made a big deal about it. I didn't get why then it was a big deal, it wasn't making any noise. I guess normal kids don't drum their fingers and then I find out as an adult finger drumming is normal so I wondered if I was just pathologizied in that situation.

Then I remember a story from my mother about the one in 6th grade, kids were being wild, making funny faces at the teacher, tossing things across the room at each other and I would only read a book or lay my head down. But this was so worse than the other kids apparently and it was all caught on video and the staff didn't care. They were more concerned about me reading a book and laying my head down after the student teacher took it away. Then another time a girl kept tapping my shoulder and I ignored it and after ignoring it, I finally shoved her after she touched me one last time and the school used that to justify I had a behavior. My therapist who had watched 6 hrs of footage said I was provoked and her watching that whole video, it was like watching a live Hollywood film and made list of things she saw. Class was out of control, they were throwing stuff at each other, kids getting out of their seats, student teacher being oblivious, kids making funny faces at her when she turns her back, no one in the room to supervise the student teacher, and the student teacher doesn't know how to keep her audience and I did nothing until the last ten minutes of the video. She also said she wouldn't be able to learn in that environment because of all the distraction and chaos so she bets it was ten times harder for me and she bets I learned nothing that day because I am too busy to not act like the other kids. But the staff was still obsessed about me shoving that girl and were still deaf ears about the other kids.

I was pretty argumentative as a kid too because I was for social justice. I wanted fairness, not be oppressed. But I didn't have this behavior problem at home because my parents had no double standards. Me and my brothers got in trouble for the same stuff. No one was a scape goat. Plus my mom would often explain nuances to me and age differences so at age ten, I came up with a new rule of my own, only copy what kids my age or older do, not 3 grades below or more than two years younger than me since rules change for age groups as you get older. A two year old can throw a tantrum but a 6 year old cannot. That is the rule.

But however, how would you be able to explain to a kid like me at eight years of age why this one boy in my class can scream and shriek for attention and I cannot at school? Or explain different standards to me like why can this kid be allowed his own basketball and the rest of the kids cannot? I just simply thought the teacher assigned different rules to each kid so I would test them to see what special rule I had and I discovered I was allowed to shriek so I did it at school. This was why I got pulled out of my self contained class because kids were not able to set an example for me of how to behave and because each kid had their own scale and I was not able to understand that. I also wasn't the other kid in that class mimicking others so that reinforced it in me. But the fact my mom has said in her exact words "you're not autistic, you're not Asperger's, you're Kit" and it made me feel she was trying to separate me from my issues and pretend they are not part of me and like this was not my issue and I shouldn't have had that issue and it came off as her saying I was faking it and it was the environment causing it than my own brain causing it.


Then my mom sounded surprised when she found out I had stopping going to autism support groups and she asked me why so I told her based on her claims she had made about my diagnoses, "My diagnoses was fraudulent" and she then backpedaled on that big time saying "it was not fraudulent, it was the best diagnoses for you, you're just an atypical aspie is all. You are on the autistic spectrum." Really? Gee she sure did a 180 big time. I even told her if it wasn't AS, then I don't know what it was then when I thought I had an answer. I even almost told her "if it wasn't AS, then maybe it was all a big conspiracy at my school and by all my friends and in my neighborhood and they all decided to gain up on me and make me feel I was different and had something wrong with me, that would be another explanation for my differences" but I didn't because there was no point when "she had changed her mind again." Maybe she will change her mind again and decide all my issues were just due to anxiety instead and me being unsecured of myself. :rolls eyes: I can remember someone telling me online it sounds like my mom is a jerk and she is gaslighting me. My online friend said it just sounds like she has a hard time accepting she has a daughter with a disability.

If you were to look at my profile here, you will see some info I wrote about myself being sarcastic about my diagnoses. It was based on the things my mom told me.

 

[Thinx]

Well, it sounds like it was confusing for you. Often what people mean when they say 'You are not Aspergers you are you', or similar, is that Aspergers is only part of who we are, not all. That we have our own individuality, our own abilities and personality, apart from whether we are neurotypical or neurodiverse. I do think that's true, and it may have been what your mum meant, I guess?

Every person is different, whether neurotypical or neurodiverse, no two people are alike, so having Aspergers or another diagnosis, is still only part of who you are. Sounds like you have many aspects to your personality and abilities and to who you are, as everyone does.

A diagnosis is just a label about some of what may fit for us, it's a general label, as you say, and may well not be right for each person in all areas. Your school sounded pretty rubbish by the way, the way they treated you. But at least you had a therapist, sounds like they helped a bit.

 

[SDRSpark]

I would have started to act like the other kids in that class and mimic them thinking it's normal behavior and other kids do it too so it's normal. It was deja vu for my parents because when I was in a self contained class when I was 6 and 7, I acted like other kids in that class because I thought it was normal behavior.

I still have this problem as an adult. I don't even realize I'm doing it, so if I get with the "wrong" group of people, I start mirroring their behavior and later realize I've gone down a road I really don't want to go down.

I also mirror the behavior of certain groups, and when they do it, it's great, and then when I do it, it's bad. Or I get rewarded for it one day, so I do it again the next day, but then I'm wrong for doing it the next day.

Expected social behavior is terribly inconsistent and I've never been able to pin it down.

I faced a lot of double standards at school too...it seemed like everyone was against me, I was Public Enemy No. 1 among the students, and most of the time, the teachers did nothing, or even joined in (sometimes I was punished for being bullied, then people wonder why I distrust authority now lol gee, I wonder?) I never could figure out what I was doing wrong, despite asking for help in this area as a child.

 

[SDRSpark]

If you were to look at my profile here, you will see some info I wrote about myself being sarcastic about my diagnoses. It was based on the things my mom told me.

Your experience definitely sounds like that of someone who is autistic from where I sit (I'm not an expert and don't pretend to be one, but your experience is pretty freaking common). In fact you sound a lot like me.

I think your mom probably didn't want you to be autistic, didn't want you to be "pathologized", etc. and that is what lead to her confusing and contradictory statements. I think you should disregard them, stop questioning YOUR experience because of HER words. Her words come from her own perspective and hopes/desires/prejudices and don't have a lot of bearing on your experience. (To be clear: I think your mom meant well, and there's no malice here. However, she's only lead to doubt and confusion on your part.)

 

[Kit]

I still have this problem as an adult. I don't even realize I'm doing it, so if I get with the "wrong" group of people, I start mirroring their behavior and later realize I've gone down a road I really don't want to go down.

I also mirror the behavior of certain groups, and when they do it, it's great, and then when I do it, it's bad. Or I get rewarded for it one day, so I do it again the next day, but then I'm wrong for doing it the next day.

Expected social behavior is terribly inconsistent and I've never been able to pin it down.

I faced a lot of double standards at school too...it seemed like everyone was against me, I was Public Enemy No. 1 among the students, and most of the time, the teachers did nothing, or even joined in (sometimes I was punished for being bullied, then people wonder why I distrust authority now lol gee, I wonder?) I never could figure out what I was doing wrong, despite asking for help in this area as a child.

I honestly think me learning about AS and learning about social cues gave me closure to all this because I was missing out on social cues so that would explain the double standards. Then my mom basically reverses it so I would think if this wasn't autism, then I guess I was caught up in a big conspiracy ring against me. As a child, I did think I was caught up in a big conspiracy ring but I just didn't know it had a name so I couldn't describe it other than "I get treated different" "it's okay for other kids to do it but not me" "I get picked on because my name is Kit and all the Kits get picked on in the world" and then saying "all the kids have different rules than me and they give me Kit rules and give everyone else other kid rules." You would think "gee no wonder you had behavior."


I don't think it was a big conspiracy BTW, just me not understanding social cues and nuances and I wanted to be "normal." My mom labeled me as being innocent and naïve.