How do you convince a partner that their ASD is a big factor in relationship problems?

[Artemis]

I'm so very confused. I've posted at length recently about how bad my relationship with my ASD spouse has become. To sum that all up, I have over given, and over empathized to the point that I have grown resentful and angry for maintaining and carrying most of the mental and all of the financial load for him and our son. A lot of people in the other forums say something to the effect of "put your lifejacket on first". And when I read in between the lines there I see that advice calling out my codependency issues. My mom has told me she is on the spectrum, and I have evidence that from an early age I was attempting to take responsibility for her feelings and meltdowns. I think it's going to take work to solve, but I am working with a therapist on it.

In the meantime, when I do start to stand up for myself, I find that several things happen:

- My words are misconstrued and sentiments blown out of proportion (if I call him out for flirting, he says I called him a womanizer or if I tell him we could do with space apart he says I am kicking him out of the house).
- He turns the argument around so that he is angry with me, and we aren't even talking about the issue that I brought up initially (making it so none of my issues are actually addressed and where the dynamic changes to him being mad at me).
- And when I try and tell him I think that we need therapy together and that his ASD is impacting our ability to have a healthy relationship or at least healthy communication which is making it difficult for us to relate, he says:
"I have no problem addressing my issues, including whatever autistic behaviors I might exhibit, but carrying on as though it is the sole reason we are having trouble is not only a way for you to excuse yourself from the dynamic but it places the onus solely on me, which is unacceptable given the actual context of our relationship."

I'm absolutely willing to take responsibility, and I have tried to have loving conversations with him about my past, about my mother, and I want so badly an equal partner that is a mirror, that I can learn from and grow with. Is there any getting through to him? He says "the relentless focus on this single topic is a huge part of how we've come to find ourselves in the current situation, and that you continue to obsess over it is a red flag for me." and honestly, I feel like without addressing it we may never get better.

Would really love to hear from anyone on the spectrum as well as any NT's that have been making a long-term relationship work with someone on the spectrum.

 

[GadAbout]

In your last paragraph above, you ask to hear from those who have been successful in making a LTR work with someone on the spectrum. If memory serves (and it doesn't always), I told you this was a lost cause in a previous thread, and advised you to get out before you wasted any more time. Unfortunately, from what I read in this thread, I hold that opinion even more strongly.

The only thing that will convince him is losing you, and even that might not do it. He can certainly concoct some character flaw of yours that prevented the relationship from working out.

 

[Fino]

It looks like you have two options:

1. Stop talking about it.
2. Keep talking about it.

The first makes you unhappy, the second makes him unhappy.

*explodes*

 

[Suzanne]

I am an aspie who is married to an nt ( this was unknown on getting married) and in fact, since my formal diagnosis, things are a little better, accept, my husband does tend to do what you do. It is your aspergers that is causing these issues.

I strongly sense, that you are resenting him for all those years as a child, having to deal with your parent and that is most understandable.

Just to ask: did you know he had aspergers when you met?

My husband and I have an explosive marriage and I have felt resentful that I am the one who is being told to take medicine for anger issues, when my husband suffers from anger issues too. But, I came to see, that I do not only get angry with my husband, but at any situation and thus, the conclusion is, that if meds can help me calm down, that not only would help my husband to control his anger, but really, it is my duty to do my part.

When we feel attacked, we sadly attack. You both feel attacked and so, you both attack.

My husband has spent years battling with me, but in fact, my diagnosis, I feel is actually a very positive move on the whole. Rather amusingly, he who was hesitant in me getting a formal diagnosis, because of the fear I will use it against him, he is the one who does that! I can forgive you, because it must be your aspergers talking!!!

We are both terribly sensitive people and so when both are sensitive, as you and your husband are, you have to find the dimanics to see who is the stronger one and for my marriage, it appears I have the stronger one. I have a deep sense of self.

I must say that when my husband gets upset because he senses a lack of warmth from me, it does panic me, because I have to battle myself each day and thus, I do get overwhelmed. He is a very toucy person and I am not.

Personally, I think you should back your words up that you need time alone, as currently, you feel angry that you have to deal with both your husband and your mother and you NEED to seperate the two issues.

Above all, think of your son and what it is doing to him? In truth, when a child comes along, you have a great responsibility to raise that child in a sound environment.

 

[Baeraad]

It honestly sounds like he's depressed and reading the worst into everything. You say he's flirting, he hears "you're a womaniser"; in the same way, it seems that when you say his autism is part of the problem, he hears "this is all your fault because you're a disgusting cripple."

I honestly don't know how you can get through to him when everything is being filtered through that dark outlook. I have been in a similar place as him, but I can't say for sure what got me out of it. Some combination of antidepressants and having life get better in a practical way, I think. The meds you could possibly convince him to take, if he's not already on them, but if you were in a position to fix his life for him you would have done it already, so... I don't know. I wish I could help.

 

[Artemis]

So, sounds like you are all saying there is no way to logically work on this? To be clear: I don't "blame" ASD, I think there are a lot of things that are wonderful because of it. He's so amazing at anything he pours himself into, and is truly such a wonderful soul, he's been in a dark place because he is out of work and lost...but to @GadAbout 's point... It's pretty clear he's making this about some deep character flaw in me... I feel as though that has been building for sometime which is why he has been treating me with contempt. It definitely feels as if he is trying to push me away in a sense.

But after 8 years of a relationship, and only having officially gotten married last year (things seemed to start getting really bad right after he insisted we get married?), shared debt, and most of all, having a lovely son, who clearly likes it better when we're all together — it's not as simple as just walking away.

Plus, I just spent time with my extended family (whom I just told he wasn't around because he had to work) so even not knowing the situation they say having a baby/toddler is really tough on a relationship. Which I know to be true, too. It's like the forest for the trees, this is just a phase that we can get through together with mutual respect and understanding... in my opinion as long as we're on the same side this is all solvable. His response to that type of sentiment is cold and unloving. And he went so far as to call me the "enemy".

 

[Artemis]

Also, how specifically to respond to the assertion that I refuse to take responsibility? That's simply not true, and is such projection in this case. In fact, I've always taken too much of it, and now that I'm trying to back down and not apologize for every damn thing is exactly when we're having problems.

If he says he's tired because he hasn't slept well for the past 3 nights and I haven't slept well in the past 3 months; but I simply agree and say, yeah I haven't slept well since I started my new job (fact) he will look at me in disgust and ask alloud why I make everything a "competition". If he says something that is projection (he says I am filled with self-loathing, simply not true) and I say I think that is you, he says it's like talking to a crazy person because I don't have ideas of my own and I use his words against him. The only word I have for it sometimes is Hitchcock-ian, because it feels like a form of gaslighting.

Is there ANY way to argue back at all? It seems like no, if i have an opinion that is different from his he is angry at me and I truly can't ever win. Is there ANY way to get through to him. ANY angle I can use to appeal to him. We used to be so in love. I'm so heartbroken over this.

 

[onlything]

You may need to give him an ultimatum: either you both go to therapy to solve the problem or you leave. From what you say, at the moment it doesn't seem he's going to listen to you.

 

[Gracey]

@ Artemis
The sleep example you've just given highlights it beautifully, (for me)

He hasn't slept well the past 3 nights,
you answer that with not having slept well the past three months.

Both are fact. And valid. Both of you need a better quality of sleep.

He *may* just focus on that one issue.
He will ensure he improves his sleep routine and fix his sleep issue.
perhaps to him, it's black and white. logically remedied.


Your sleep issues may carry the weight of much emotion, internal conflict, anticipatory worries, negative experiences, some loss of autonomy and disappointments over a period of time.

You *may* want his help sorting through the above to find answers, an equilibrium, before feeling calm, whole and at peace again.

I think he may need some instruction on how he can help.
It might not be that he doesn't want to,
He may not know how to?

BUT, ... and there's always a but

keep your expectations in check, no , really,
take a good look at what you're expecting from him.

No amount of care and love changes an Orchid into a sumptuous strawberry plant that just keeps on giving.
The Orchid always has to be the Orchid.

he can't process your feelings as deeply as you do, (they're your feelings)
he may (or may not) just offer a solution?

 

[Juliettaa]

The sleep example you've just given highlights it beautifully, (for me)

You beat me to it @Gracey


OP, if my husband were to respond to me with your response about sleep I know I'd reply along the lines of your husband (or worse!).

If I am talking about how I'm feeling, all I want is for someone to listen, acknowledge. I don't want it to be a contest 'who is the most tired, who is the most over worked, who's the most stressed etc etc'

Is there ANY way to argue back at all?

How about changing your tactic by not arguing back at all. When he says something that would prompt you to snap back, take a breath and walk off.

Above all, think of your son and what it is doing to him? In truth, when a child comes along, you have a great responsibility to raise that child in a sound environment.

Absolutely agree with this.

You may think that your son isn't picking up on the tension in your relationship as he's too young. He will be. Without doubt.



I mean this in the nicest possible way - direct communication is the only way I know, being autistic, but I question if this is the right forum for you? Wouldn't you be better off posting in a forum that has a larger proportion of people who can understand your situation from your perspective? After all, the majority of the members here are on the autistic spectrum. Granted, there are NT members, but your posts have a desperate feel to them, as if you're reaching breaking point, so you may want to have a look at other forum alternatives.

Just a suggestion - with good intention.

 

[Gracey]

...And I truly can't ever win...
.

@Artemis
Take a huge deep breath, step back and remind yourself it's never about winning.

"winning" suggests competition.

If I may,

How do you think you may both be able to move forward together?

How do you think you can find a compromise or resolution?

Do you have some ideas of things you could both try?

 

[Tom]

I think it often happens that couples come to an impasse. Sometimes a third neutral party in the form of a counselor can be helpful.

 

[Suzanne]

I would like to add, that this is a forum for those who are the autism spectrum and although it is true anyone is welcome to join, one has to appreciate that we are not nts and thus, can only do our best to answer and so, nts cannot expect an nt view point.

Many who have joined, actually join to understand their aspie partners, so to try and improve.

 

[ClairMarie]

hello, please can I get some help? I am not on the spectrum but I am 99% sure my partner is and after 5 years of being together I am just realising this. We are on the verge of breaking up and I don't know how to get through to him that I love him and want us to work. I put pressure on him wanting intermacy but now I realise he cant and him giving me a "time slot" was his way of trying to give me what I needed.

 

[Juliettaa]

hello, please can I get some help? I am not on the spectrum but I am 99% sure my partner is and after 5 years of being together I am just realising this. We are on the verge of breaking up and I don't know how to get through to him that I love him and want us to work. I put pressure on him wanting intermacy but now I realise he cant and him giving me a "time slot" was his way of trying to give me what I needed.

Have you ever considered you're just not compatible?

It takes two to make the relationship. You say you want it to work; what does he want?

 

[Pats]

You made the choice to marry him after years of struggling and the struggling continues or has worsened. Can you try to stop focusing so much on the ASD and focus more on yourself and your son? What do YOU need to make you happier? Let him be what he can be in the relationship - that's all you can ask for. You can't fix things, so make them better for you and your son.

We all tend to expect things to be certain ways. I remember getting so frustrated with my ex and his relationship with our kids. They were young, he'd show up maybe once every year or two and stay for a day or two then leave. The entire time he'd be there he'd be on the phone or doing anything but actually being with the kids. One day I was trying to explain to him that he needed to be present and he said he didn't know them and didn't know how. That's when it hit me like a smack in the face. His relationship with the kids was between him and the kids. I couldn't make it what I wanted or thought it should be. I had to let it go and accept that I couldn't fix things, only try to be there to support my kids, if they needed it. By the way, they were fine with how things were - I was the only one with the problem. Now that they're grown they've told me they always thought he was weird and it's weird being around him but they do it for his sake.

 

[Pats]

hello, please can I get some help? I am not on the spectrum but I am 99% sure my partner is and after 5 years of being together I am just realising this. We are on the verge of breaking up and I don't know how to get through to him that I love him and want us to work. I put pressure on him wanting intermacy but now I realise he cant and him giving me a "time slot" was his way of trying to give me what I needed.

@ClairMarie to him that IS his way of trying to give you what you want and need. Sounds like he's also trying to make things work. His view of what love means may be quite different than yours. It's hard to understand that, and it's hard to accept that his way of loving you may be through other things. I'm sorry it's so hard. Acceptance and understanding another person's ways are almost impossible when it doesn't come close to matching your own.

 

[Mia]

- My words are misconstrued and sentiments blown out of proportion (if I call him out for flirting, he says I called him a womanizer or if I tell him we could do with space apart he says I am kicking him out of the house).
- He turns the argument around so that he is angry with me, and we aren't even talking about the issue that I brought up initially (making it so none of my issues are actually addressed and where the dynamic changes to him being mad at me).
- And when I try and tell him I think that we need therapy together and that his ASD is impacting our ability to have a healthy relationship or at least healthy communication which is making it difficult for us to relate, he says:
"I have no problem addressing my issues, including whatever autistic behaviors I might exhibit, but carrying on as though it is the sole reason we are having trouble is not only a way for you to excuse yourself from the dynamic but it places the onus solely on me, which is unacceptable given the actual context of our relationship."

-To your first point, 'misconstruing statements/blowing them out of proportion.' Both my spouse and I used to do this in the first ten years, it's probably more usual than you know. You need to be clearer, more specific, break it down into parts. We were both interpreting differently, the same language, one with certain ideas about words, another with absolute ideas about words.
This for my husband, was a stalling tactic. A way to give him time to think and respond, a way to circumvent a confrontation. It was also a way for him to derail the discussion. Because he had no immediate solution to fix it, nor did he really understand why it was an issue. It also indicates that both of you want to fix the difficulties, but don't quite know how. We were the same, it also meant that we cared enough about one another to enter the chaotic scene of argumentation to attempt to repair it. Something Aspies absolutely hate. If you were not arguing, it would mean you didn't care.

- He turns the argument around so that he is angry. He is interpreting the argument as a criticism of himself, an attack on his character, even if it's not. And that makes him angry, often, anger is depression turned inwards. You should attempt to make it clear to him, that you are discussing a problem that you both need to solve. Here are some rules for arguments, that might help: 30 Fair Fighting Rules for Couples | Psychologia

- And when I try and tell him I think that we need therapy together and that his ASD is impacting our ability to have a healthy relationship or at least healthy communication which is making it difficult for us to relate.
Therapy may help, but it might not either. Couples therapists did not help us and we went to several. Aspies mask in these situations, and getting through that facade takes a really good therapist.
It's not just him, it's you as well. Healthy communication requires trust and cooperation and the lessening of ego's. The ability to give to one another requires some selflessness on both sides.
What I eventually did, was learn to communicate in a way he understands. I took a university course in critical thinking. It helped immensely in our communication and it changed the way I look at the world.

 

[Ylva]

I just want to address the question in the headline, seeing as I'm not a huge relationship person. If you call the ASD "the problem" you have run aground, and you're blaming the ground for being there. You can't change that part of the system, it's always going to be there. If the problem is a thing you can't change, then you can't solve the problem. Better to ask why it's a problem.

 

[Autistamatic]

Bad relationships can sometimes be fixed with the right kind of help. I have a loving and romantic soul and I wish nothing more than to see people who are hurting find happiness. I am also autistic which has undeniable influence on the way I perceive and process emotions, but it is only part of who I am, who we as autistic people are.

Please stop trying to find your answers in autism. Even if your partners are on the spectrum, being autistic is not a reason or excuse for being nasty or selfish.

You get lovely, kind, considerate and sharing autistic people and you get selfish, irresponsible ones too. You get ones who go out of their way to demonstrate their love for their partners and others who never, ever say those "3 little words", buy meaningful gifts or put your needs before theirs.

The variation is just the same as with NT people. Learning about their autism, if they actually have it, is no bad thing, but it will NOT give you tools to fix a broken or failing relationship. The same rules apply as if they were NT.

I'm in a wonderful marriage with the woman of my dreams, who is NT, and the reason it works is that we love each other and are always considerate of the other's needs as of our own. We've never raised our voices to each other in the 13 years we've had together because we always talk things out calmly and without blame.

I've had many previous relationships that lasted years, that were not successful. If truth be told @Artemis your fella's attitude/behaviour sounds more like an ex of mine with every post I read. I spent 5 years with her (let's call her 'M') and she was as NT as they come, but she still treated me in much the same way, and I, like you, was the one who spent fruitless years trying to fix it. I couldn't say anything right, everything I said was twisted, my needs were always secondary to hers and I had to go to work every day whilst she made excuses. After years of being on the receiving end of that abuse I ended it. M treated me like dirt in the end despite a loving, happy first 18 months.

I could go through every one of my failed relationships with NT women and pick out behaviours and failures that could be blamed on them being autistic, but they were not.

Just one other thing to consider. I was first diagnosed autistic at age 13 and went through the process again in my early 30s. In all the relationships I was in (up to my wife) I never told any of them and only one of them ever worked it out (after 4 years). My wife was the first and only woman who I told from the get go.

I see these tales of broken relationships and I want us to be able to help, but unfortunately we're likely the last people who can help. We can talk about autism and help you understand some traits, but it is not autism that breaks relationships, it's incompatible people. Just because their (possible) autism may contribute to some of their positive personality traits doesn't mean the rest of their personality can work alongside yours.