Flow and ASD?

[harrietjansson]

Do you experience flow when you hyperfocus on something you're intrested in?
Is this the pleasure that people are supposed to experience when they hyperfocus on something they are interested in?
When I hyperfocus on something it is often something that is a frustration and not pleasurable so I don't understand what this is all about. This is true when I am really interested in something.

 

[SimonSays]

Yes. For me the flow is there when I make mandalas. Because of the precise nature of the work, so much focus is required, that there are times when I feel like nothing else exists.

Gel pen Mandala

 

[harrietjansson]

Yes. For me the flow is there when I make mandalas. Because of the precise nature of the work, so much focus is required, that there are times when I feel like nothing else exists.

Gel pen Mandala

No difficulties are experienced? I would definitely experience difficulties and frustrations.
Are you very good at dealing with the difficulties?

 

[SimonSays]

No difficulties are experienced? I would definitely experience difficulties and frustrations.
Are you very good at dealing with the difficulties?

I am good at being present, and accepting things as they are. Occasionally, I make a mistake. Lack of focus. I don't like it. The Mandala is not about creating a work of art, but being present and focused with each individual part of it as if each part is being done for the first time, every time. At some point it is finished and beautiful, but it's not about finishing something beautiful. The difficulty arises if I get too caught up in the idea of perfection. I can get close sometimes, but nothing is ever perfect, no matter how precise I am.

If I make a mistake, can I correct it and not always see it when I look? If I can't correct it, can I accept it, or do I have to discard the whole thing and start again? Sometimes I have had to discard it, and I have to almost grieve for it for a bit, depending on how much work I've done, and then I have to let it go, remembering that it was never about creating a work of art, but taking a journey.

 

[harrietjansson]

remembering that it was never about creating a work of art, but taking a journey.

Never have any expactations and you will never have any frustration?

 

[SimonSays]

Never have any expactations and you will never have any frustration?

In a sense, yes. Frustration comes from the resistance to the difference between what I wanted and what actually is. If I can accept what is, even if at first I don't want it, then I can incorporate it into the flow, so there's no frustration. What has occurred can even become inspiration.

 

[harrietjansson]

I wrote "When I hyperfocus on something it is often something that is a frustration and not pleasurable so I don't understand what this is all about. This is true when I am really interested in something."

Is this a taboo subject? I mean, people always talk about how pleasurable hyperfocus is.
Is this perhaps such a sensitive topic that people refrain from mentioning this?
Even in autism awareness circles this subject is really never mentioned at all.

 

[SimonSays]

Is this a taboo subject? I mean, people always talk about how pleasurable hyperfocus is.
Is this perhaps such a sensitive topic that people refrain from mentioning this?

I'm not sure what you mean. Why would it be a taboo subject? Why would it be a sensitive topic for others to talk about?

When you experience what you call hyper focus, other people might call getting into the 'zone'. Without thought they just act and it seems to work because in many ways, they have got themselves out of the way. Whether it's a sportsman feeling at the peak of his performance, or an actor who is lost in the role, they are in the 'zone', and that is why it is pleasurable.

 

[harrietjansson]

When you experience what you call hyper focus, other people might call getting into the 'zone'.

I call it "extreme frustration and confusion".
The "zone" soynds too positive.
This is something that people refrain from speaking about.
I was listening to Tony Attwood talking aboyt special interest but he never mentioned this. I have listened to podcast about this sibject and this was never mentioned at all.
People talked about pleasure but never the "extreme frustrations".
This is why I asked if this is a topic people want to avoid.
It is a topic we should never speak about even if it is reality?
It is avoided here on this forum.

 

[GadAbout]

Different strokes for different folks, harriet.

I used to experience a "flow" state when doing certain kinds of research, and I did enjoy it. But it's a long time since I did anything like that - not even sure I could, any more. "Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most."

Musical conductors and performers tend to retain their mental state a long time, even peaking in mid-life and later. Poets and mathematicians tend to peak early.

 

[harrietjansson]

Different strokes for different folks, harriet.

what does that mean? I could refer to that stroke can look different depending on the person who gets it but I guess we are not talking about stroke in that sense.

 

[GadAbout]

Oh sorry. It just means everyone is different.

 

[Aspychata]

When l get involved in art and certain forms of exercise l am hyperfocus.

It is a release, and l feel centered and it's a planet l am visiting where my focus is centered and everything else ceases to exist. My daughter has the same hyperfocus when she is involved with projects. I always made sure never to interrupt her in her zone but respect her.

 

[harrietjansson]

When l get involved in art and certain forms of exercise l am hyperfocus.

It is a release, and l feel centered and it's a planet l am visiting where my focus is centered and everything else ceases to exist. My daughter has the same hyperfocus when she is involved with projects. I always made sure never to interrupt her in her zone but respect her.

this reply is a good example of what I am talking about. People refrain from talking about the frustrations and confsuing involved. This is why I said that is a taboo subject. People just don't anna talk about it. It's like everything you are interested in should only give you pleasure. That I think is demandong too much of a person.

 

[Judge]

This is why I said that is a taboo subject. People just don't wanna talk about it. It's like everything you are interested in should only give you pleasure. That I think is demanding too much of a person.

Good point. Perhaps this happens given a potential awkwardness associated with special interests that doesn't really give anyone real pleasure, but something else. Perhaps that which is more related to intense- even morbid curiosity. And a struggle to learn them doesn't necessarily create or enhance any perception of pleasure on the way.

Not everything one may be deeply immersed in necessarily gives them pleasure. But even then I don't understand why people would feel compelled to consider this a taboo subject? If this is the case, we would have no forensic scientists, coroners, morticians, executioners, etc. Where perhaps a few may admit such avocations involved pleasure of some sort, yet others would object to such a description.

I have a degree in constitutional law and totalitarian systems. They may fascinate me, but give me no pleasure. I just see nothing particularly "taboo" about such a perspective. That puzzles me as well to think that others are compelled to associate any and all interests with pleasure.

 

[Aspychata]

this reply is a good example of what I am talking about. People refrain from talking about the frustrations and confsuing involved. This is why I said that is a taboo subject. People just don't anna talk about it. It's like everything you are interested in should only give you pleasure. That I think is demandong too much of a person.

I guess l view frustration as a personal challenge and something that l need to master, where as you are informing me that l am only to view in the light of frustration with no positive outcome, l use this as challenges to move forward and not hold myself back.

You are welcome to your views, but not everyone sees issues where you see them.

 

[Judge]

I guess l view frustration as a personal challenge and something that l need to master, where as you are informing me that l am only to view in the light of frustration with no positive outcome, l use this as challenges to move forward and not hold myself back.

Good point. After all, most successes are ultimately built on foundations of failure.

Mine sure were!

 

[harrietjansson]

You are welcome to your views, but not everyone sees issues where you see them.

Well, sometimes I am not. People never talk about this and avoid this topic. Sure, there are people like you but there are people who are different from you (even if people try to avoid mentioning them). This is is why I am asking if this is a taboo subject. Having a special interest must only be pleasurable they say. I dissagree and says that we must talk about this taboo subject.
I don't understand why people, both professionals and other people, avoid this topic.
Sometimes we just don't want to see reality? This is why we never want to see the frustrations that can be a part of a special interest. I have tried to to avoid them but couldn't. Focusing on the wrong details can be bad.

Why do people never mention this you think? Why should we only be allowed to experience pleasure in our special interests? Isn't that demanding too much of people?

 

[Aspychata]

Think you need to be realistic in what challenges you try to succeed at. If you are colorblind, you may choose not to become a clothing designer because the challenges maybe more than you can overcome. If you are extremely uncoordinated, maybe juggling as a street artist isn't your forte.

Maybe dealing with frustration is your issue. That you can't quite get past.

 

[harrietjansson]

Perhaps that which is more related to intense- even morbid curiosity.

Sounds like me I guess. I just get anxious and want to understand too much which really is asking me not to understand anything. You have to stop tying to understand certain things in order not to to feel frustrated.