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Finding God

ucrenegade

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
The simplicity of Yeshua you just need two things then pray.

1. Realize 90 percent of what your taught in Christianity and Judaism has been wrong and more man made doctrines then the bible.

2. Start with the Torah portions and realize that in the old and new testament are all words spoken by Yeshua. If you can understand that then you know that what is being said in the new testament can not contradict anything of the old.

If you start with those two concepts it will put you on the path to finding the true God not the made up one Judaism and Christianity gives you.
 
I have a few queries about what you posted.

A brief look into the history of the Torah and it's authors seems to suggest that scholars cannot agree on a definitive answer.

"...modern scholarly consensus rejects Mosaic authorship, and affirms that the Torah has multiple authors and that its composition took place over centuries"

You say the Torah portions are "all words spoken by Yeshua" and seem to criticise Christianity and Judaism for "man made parts". Yet it seems the scholars would suggest man wrote the Torah over many centuries, and with many authors. If it did indeed take centuries to write, who's to say how accurate these words spoken by Yeshua have been written down by the hand of man?

As for "true God" has this not been an argument made across the centuries? The simple concept of "us and them" that has repeated time and again throughout human history and led to racism, wars, prejudice and religious persecutions.

As Hinduism is believed to be older than the Torah, why would you claim the Torah to be the path to finding "the true God". Would you consider Hinduism to be meaningless or blasphemous?

I found this excerpt to be quite interesting, and I'll admit it's only the history of religious texts that I find intriguing, as opposed to the myths that make up the texts themselves:

"The practice of Judaism didn't really become uniform or codified until the Babylonian Captivity, at the earliest (around 600 BC). Prior to that, archeological evidence shows a lot of variation, including the worship of multiple gods (which is certainly against monotheistic Judaism). It would be hard to defend that the Judaism practiced in 1200 BC (if indeed the people mentioned in the Merneptah Stele were Jews) was the same as that practiced when the Dead Sea Scrolls were written, a thousand years later. Some elements remain common, but much of the religion has changed."

At the end of the day - humanity and our ego is driven by change. To say that the new testament can't contradict the old doesn't seem to factor in just how many generations have passed in between them being written. As such, I think it's very difficult to claim validity for one text and disregard others, when they were not only written so long ago, but also when they were written was generations after the events took place. If I was to try and write down an event that happened say 300 years ago and relied solely upon an oral tradition - how accurate would you say my writing would be? Now, you could say the word of God is infallible, but man isn't. Especially when it involves many men across many generations.

I personally think religions have it right when they say there is more to our existence than what happens on earth. Also proverbs, myths and stories to teach morality is a worthwhile practice. But this whole "us and them" or "follow my word or be damned" is what has really caused most of the issues with religion throughout history. Just look to the world events today and you still have different races, religions and denominations killing each other because "we're right, you're wrong."

I also think that if this "second coming" were to ever happen. How many would even believe? How many would accuse them of being a false prophet or heretic?

Then again, perhaps the above sums up my points entirely - perhaps we are too sceptical. But I don't see that as a bad thing when you're literally dealing with ancient history. Life is always open to interpretation. Yes, having "truths" or guarantees might make you feel safer. But all religion requires faith, and that is never going to be grounded in undeniable proof. We're too far removed from the events to ever be able to say with any certainty "this is right" or "that is wrong".

I'll end with this - supposedly, throughout history there have been thousands of gods. Even in modern times we are well into double figures when it comes to deities currently being worshipped.

Ed
 
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It is questionable how much of what is claimed to be the teachings of Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels (excluding John, which was written later) is really his words. There is competition here too, with 19 century CE scholars in Germany believing that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke have fragments of an older text comprised only of the sayings of Yeshua hiding in them, a book they called Quelle Gospel. ("Quelle" means "source" in German.) The book "Q: The Lost Gospel" is an interesting read, including the supposed text of Quelle itself.

Another contender is the Gospel of Thomas, which is readily available. Thomas is similar to Quelle, basically just a list of sayings. The followers of Thomas/Quelle may have been a different sect than the ultimately victorious Syrian/Pauline Christians from northwest Syria. The story of "Doubting Thomas" may have been a backhanded swipe at Thomas Christians, those who wanted to follow a more nuanced, in depth faith as opposed to the Paulines who were simply "Jesus rose for your sins; accept it and earn eternal life in paradise."

Another source is "Zealot" by Reza Aslan which is a heterodox biography of Yeshua that sets him in the context of Judea during the rule of Augustus Caesar. Judea was similar to the US in the 1970s, with self-proclaimed messiahs wandering the land and gathering flocks of young, unemployed Jews who questioned a Judean elite in thrall to Roman occupiers. With traditional cultural touchstones being questioned, the youth flocked to anybody promising a new way. Yeshua according to Aslan comes off as a great-but very human-man. That of course goes against the heart of modern Christianity.
 
I have a few queries about what you posted.

A brief look into the history of the Torah and it's authors seems to suggest that scholars cannot agree on a definitive answer.

"...modern scholarly consensus rejects Mosaic authorship, and affirms that the Torah has multiple authors and that its composition took place over centuries"

You say the Torah portions are "all words spoken by Yeshua" and seem to criticise Christianity and Judaism for "man made parts". Yet it seems the scholars would suggest man wrote the Torah over many centuries, and with many authors. If it did indeed take centuries to write, who's to say how accurate these words spoken by Yeshua have been written down by the hand of man?

As for "true God" has this not been an argument made across the centuries? The simple concept of "us and them" that has repeated time and again throughout human history and led to racism, wars, prejudice and religious persecutions.

As Hinduism is believed to be older than the Torah, why would you claim the Torah to be the path to finding "the true God". Would you consider Hinduism to be meaningless or blasphemous?

I found this excerpt to be quite interesting, and I'll admit it's only the history of religious texts that I find intriguing, as opposed to the myths that make up the texts themselves:

"The practice of Judaism didn't really become uniform or codified until the Babylonian Captivity, at the earliest (around 600 BC). Prior to that, archeological evidence shows a lot of variation, including the worship of multiple gods (which is certainly against monotheistic Judaism). It would be hard to defend that the Judaism practiced in 1200 BC (if indeed the people mentioned in the Merneptah Stele were Jews) was the same as that practiced when the Dead Sea Scrolls were written, a thousand years later. Some elements remain common, but much of the religion has changed."

At the end of the day - humanity and our ego is driven by change. To say that the new testament can't contradict the old doesn't seem to factor in just how many generations have passed in between them being written. As such, I think it's very difficult to claim validity for one text and disregard others, when they were not only written so long ago, but also when they were written was generations after the events took place. If I was to try and write down an event that happened say 300 years ago and relied solely upon an oral tradition - how accurate would you say my writing would be? Now, you could say the word of God is infallible, but man isn't. Especially when it involves many men across many generations.

I personally think religions have it right when they say there is more to our existence than what happens on earth. Also proverbs, myths and stories to teach morality is a worthwhile practice. But this whole "us and them" or "follow my word or be damned" is what has really caused most of the issues with religion throughout history. Just look to the world events today and you still have different races, religions and denominations killing each other because "we're right, you're wrong."

I also think that if this "second coming" were to ever happen. How many would even believe? How many would accuse them of being a false prophet or heretic?

Then again, perhaps the above sums up my points entirely - perhaps we are too sceptical. But I don't see that as a bad thing when you're literally dealing with ancient history. Life is always open to interpretation. Yes, having "truths" or guarantees might make you feel safer. But all religion requires faith, and that is never going to be grounded in undeniable proof. We're too far removed from the events to ever be able to say with any certainty "this is right" or "that is wrong".

I'll end with this - supposedly, throughout history there have been thousands of gods. Even in modern times we are well into double figures when it comes to deities currently being worshipped.

Ed


If your looking for the answers in man even scholarly men instead of the word then the bible won't help. You either believe or don't thier is no third choice.
 
I'm saying that the words in the bible are the words of men. Written many years after the events took place.

Isn't the history of how it was created important? That is, outside of the story itself.

Ed
 
I'm saying that the words in the bible are the words of men. Written many years after the events took place.

Isn't the history of how it was created important? That is, outside of the story itself.

Ed


This Outlook throws away the spirit was it written by men yes but were the men speaking thier own words no. I am not here debating simply helping those who are searching.
 
The simplicity of Yeshua you just need two things then pray.

1. Realize 90 percent of what your taught in Christianity and Judaism has been wrong and more man made doctrines then the bible.

2. Start with the Torah portions and realize that in the old and new testament are all words spoken by Yeshua. If you can understand that then you know that what is being said in the new testament can not contradict anything of the old.

If you start with those two concepts it will put you on the path to finding the true God not the made up one Judaism and Christianity gives you.
What like rabbis telling Yeshua that he couldn't pick an ear of corn on the shabbat because it is forbidden to work and Yeshua giving his answer which disagreed with what was interpreted
 
What like rabbis telling Yeshua that he couldn't pick an ear of corn on the shabbat because it is forbidden to work and Yeshua giving his answer which disagreed with what was interpreted


Yes in that instance but it does not mean the shabbat command is done away with. So the shabbat is not a command of men but of God but they were interpreting it wrong.
 

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