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Featured Extreme naïveté

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Lundi, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. Lundi

    Lundi Well-Known Member

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    I have had this problem since I was a small boy. I tended (tent?) to not only interpret everything literally, I also trusted in everyone and believed that everyone was 100% right and 100% trustworthy.

    When someone told me something, I had to believe it, because I believed that what everyone said was fact. It also got me into trouble.

    When I was around age 6, somehow some strangers found out my address as well as found out that my family and I were going on holiday, and thus the house would be left vacant. They rang the house phone when my parents were away, and I answered. They knew my name somehow, and asked me when we were going to leave the house for our holiday, which dates exactly and at what time. I told them all of those details, because I trusted strangers 100%. I later told my parents and they were furious that I had answered the phone to a stranger and given these details. My parents had to change the locks of our home and get some relatives to oversee our house when we went on holiday. But I never thought to myself that people could be malicious. I just answered questions automatically like a robot.

    This repeated itself in different ways, but regarding my thread on virginity and single, whenever people asked me, I would answer them honestly and automatically that I was still a virgin and single. This caused them to get information on me, and spread gossip as well as judge me negatively. I had big problems getting out of this naïve mindset, I just seemed like I had to trust and believe in complete strangers no matter what.

    Another example is when I played computer games, some random person would send me a PM saying that they were an administrator and that they needed the password to my game account immediately. I gave it to them, believing them 100%. Then suddenly I could not log back onto my account. It took me more than a month to figure out that that person just took advantage of my naïveté to log onto my account.

    Imagine if someone had asked me my credit card number or something when I was this naïve.

    Now I am very paranoid and cannot trust people at all. The other extreme. I feel like everyone is trying to get information from me, and I no longer consider many people acquaintances or friends. Anytime someone asks me a question, I get suspicious if they are going to try to squeeze information from me and then spread it all over. I feel now like basically everyone is just trying to screw me over.

    Is this related to Asperger's, and is there a way to get rid of this naïveté without becoming paranoid?
     
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  2. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you are giving into the tendency autistic people have sometimes, to think in black and white. Either everybody is to be trusted; or nobody's to be trusted.

    There are numerous shades of grey in between, but you aren't open to the possibility.

    What you need to learn to do is suspend judgment until you have evaluated a situation, and a person's trustworthiness. Then, you have to figure out some ways to test or judge their trustworthiness. Some questions to ask might be, could this person have an ulterior motive? What are the consequences of trusting this person? How could I investigate their trustworthiness? Do people I trust, trust this person?
     
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  3. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    I wish I had some advice for you, but I hit the "everyone get away from me" sort of paranoia a long, long time ago. Well, not just paranoia... more a combination of that, and a sort of bizarre auto-hate. I tend to assume that most people are jerk-idiots (and the sheer number of times I've been proven right doesnt help). I'd sooner associate with a big pile of rattlesnakes than I would an actual person. Just... bleh.

    Even when it comes to something like online gaming. It's so remote that it shouldnt matter, but I still just cant stand dealing with other players. Doesnt help that most online games have horribly toxic communities. Thus I end up completely avoiding certain games I know I'd otherwise enjoy (like Monster Hunter).

    These days, I keep to myself and dont interact with anyone outside of immediate family. Even when I'm at a convention. Well, no, I have ONE friend, but I dont see him all that often these days. He's got a job to work, after all.

    The only exceptions otherwise are a few people I somehow met on Steam, and this specific forum.

    I'm just glad I have my dog. Couldnt get by without him. He makes up by far the majority of the interactions I do have.
     
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  4. Lundi

    Lundi Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the gaming thing happened twice to me. I gave my password to people on both WoW and FIFA online. Both times someone pretended to be an administrator. That was years ago when I was a teenager. The only positive was that my inability to log back in stopped my getting addicted to the game.
     
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  5. Lundi

    Lundi Well-Known Member

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    Those sound like good questions. The thing is, often I am by myself, so I do not have anyone to perform an analysis/second evaluation of the new person who is talking to me. So I suppose that I would have to do the analysis by myself.

    There have been times when I have been with my parents, and some people whom we just got to know started asking me intrusive questions. My parents would subtly give me hints with their eyes or whisper to not answer questions. That works when I am with them, but not alone.
     
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  6. Aspychata

    Aspychata My Art Work

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    Where l live, we deal with a huge group of people who prey on older people because a lot of people are to lazy to work jobs. We are also a high end tourist area and that brings the other sector of predators. So like other posts, l feel it's in my best interest to distrust 99.9% of people that randomly seem to decide l am the mark of the day.

    The police do a excellent job and that was the huge reason l moved here. They also seem to be on top of organized anything which adds another layer of protection. In the other state l lived in , don't bother calling.

    So maybe it's okay to feel that way. Maybe one day you will trust your instinct and go with it, but when you are younger, you do get dinged alot from just naivete. The two sectors that are preyed upon the most are the young and the elders in society by the criminal population.
     
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  7. onlything

    onlything Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I used to be the same as a child. Then after a specific event and the lesson that people lie and yes, can be really malicious, it went a complete turnover into 'nobody can be trusted'. I'm trying to keep it in-between now and be less paranoid about others but I still tend to jump between complete trust and complete distrust, somehow missing the middle mark.

    My brain can be so frustrating at times and so stuck up in its own thinking. Which is why I really appreciate when people call me out on it. In any part of life really. It lets me get better at controlling and organising my thoughts.

    If it happened on the forum, I would also count on people here to let me now I got stuck.
     
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  8. Dadwith2Autisticsons

    Dadwith2Autisticsons Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    To start, try to research idioms, famous sayings and their real meanings, as sometimes persons will use this in conversation, and so this does not mean they are lying to you but just speaking in this way that many neurotypicals understand. These sayings are done either to be more abstract, simple, or in an attempt at humor.

    If someone has the ability to learn or use idioms, figurative language or famous sayings, in their speech, and if they understand some humor, or use it on occasion, although often these are seen as untruths, they are not seen as bad. As well, the ability or capacity to use such language implies the ability then to learn better when others could be telling the truth, exaggerating or lying, after one learns from those life experiences .

    After learning from my past experiences, I would never again let anyone in my door or give out personal information by phone, email or any other way unless I knew and trusted that person very very well, knew they were part of a reputable business, or some government agency,, or unless I initiated that contact to them, researched them, and expected that specific person to see me. I learned from my past scary situations there.

    Never trust anyone who says you can make lots of money easy by doing this thing or that. Get rich quick scams only make those dishonest persons rich.if you receive such a letter in the mail, voice message, email or phone call, that is a scammer trying to either take your money, or personal information, to harm you financially or some other way. Never meet someone for the first time in a non-public place, and do not assume those on the internet look like their actual pictures, much less are they the gender or age they claim to be, or live where they claim to live. This would only be proved over time, if you ever met such persons in public, or verified certain facts first, including a research on their identity or crime history.

    I know it can be easier said than done for those on the Spectrum who can see things mostly in a factual way, but thus do not assume everything you hear or see to be truth, as most other neurotypical people can “on occasion” embellish what they say to make some fact or story more interesting, or tell a small or bigger lie at times they feel are warranted, to make themselves look better, or to even trick someone, in some cases.

    Telling lies or exaggerating however is not always with intent to hurt, but to either entertain or to not hurt others. Many neurotypicals will tell a small lie to not hurt someone they care about, or they will hide the truth to not hurt that others’ feelings. In other cases, someone may lie to not get into trouble. In general, lies are more natural for neurotypicaks to avoid more plain and to get more pleasure.

    In my case, I have no need, desire or much ability to lie, unless when I feel it is necessary, as I do not need extra or more others in my life, or need gossip in my life, and as I am self-motivated to be my best, without relying on fibs or lies to get more of something, As well, I have high moral values, but this all does not mean I always will tell the truth if asked, if I do not trust that person yet, or if I feel it will cause that person more pain.

    I will though at times soften the truth if I feel it could hurt someone, and tell it in a caring and constructive way, if not hide portion of the truth. For instance, if my wife asks me if I like her colored drawing, and she put much time and effort into it, and if there was something about it I did not like, I will focus on something good to say about that drawing instead, as we all have different tastes, abilities and creative talents, so who is for me to judge her badly.

    I can read other people’s fibs, or lies usually well, even if they attempt to mask their lies. As well I can read how most must be thinking or feeling very well, even if they try to mask that. I was trained either partially through genetics and/or or from growing up watching much pain around me to try to analyze everything, and to be one step ahead of everyone, as a protective measure. This meant often I had to find the real truths, by looking beneath the surface. This does not mean I am always right though.

    Perhaps earlier in life I was naive too, but the more I was hurt or presented with supposed facts from others that I knew either was immediately fiction, or as I found later to be a lie, and the more I saw people lied either for their benefit, or to take advantage of me, the more I started not assuming things and going to protective mode. This did not mean I was later afraid of everyone, and thinking everyone was going to harm me, by lying to me, but just that for important private matters, that could involve possible danger and safety issues, I would need to verify things before acting or accepting that as a truth. (To Be Continued).
     
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  9. Dadwith2Autisticsons

    Dadwith2Autisticsons Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I find that assuming all things as truths in life, and telling without filter their internal thoughts and truths as they see it, or if even if one generalizes or categorizes, too much, this can be sometimes just as painful, hurtful or as dangerous as an occasional lie. If someone is totally blunt and honest, or assumes everything is true, yes, this can create dangerous or harming situations, like you have mentioned in giving out true personal information when asked, or if one day another seems truthful and acts that way, and you believe that, but you were really wrong as it was a lie they were telling you.

    Remember this, a totally truthful person is not afraid to find fault of their own. A totally truthful person will never usually say one thing, but often do another. A truthful person will not just talk of everything negative or everything positive, but also share at least some negative or positive about an idea, situation, themselves, or another person. A truthful person will not need to make themselves look larger or more important than life. A truthful person will admit wrongs. And truthful neurotypical for instance should be ok with another wanting to verify that supposed important truth, if a skeptical or unsure person asks for such. A truthful person is rarely pushy.

    Realize at least eight subjects should be either taboo or which societal members should be very hesitant to talk about to strangers, acquaintances, and even to their own friends or loved ones, unless they are ready for heated debate, as those topics that can be very sensitive in nature like involve religion, politics, sex, money, past relationships, prejudices, gender issues, one diagnosis’s, etc. Unless you feel those others are very receptive to hearing that, or would support you, or calmly disagree, or unless you trust that other or those others well, discussing such like to those others you meet in person will usually not get any good results, but bad, if not immediately, then later.

    Talking of virginity for instance is seen as bad to most neurotypicals, equally by such men and women alike. They would focus more on you as being flawed there, instead of focusing on your honesty. Ironic is that many religious should see that as good, but might because of peer pressure or desire to put them on higher ground see that as not good to admit or share. That is unfair, as I personally do not see that talk as bad, and I value honesty and that purity, more than shaming someone who talks of such private or concerning matters, but most do and will see it as a weakness or too private to talk about. Realize you will get more criticism and rejection than praise and friends from neurotypical, if you talk that virginity subject.

    When I analyze a situation or person, first I look at what they are saying or doing. Then I look at what they are not saying or doing. I focus on facial expressions, body language, and mannerisms, and I look at the events, actions and behaviors that occurred before such, and the events, actions and mannerisms, that occurred after, to put things better into context.

    Sometimes though, the way one looks or acts is telling of things, but sometimes not, as many people often will instinctively imitate voice loudness, mood and feeling that the other shows, or appear in some similar way to fit in, if able. Also, realize many could act very atypical in one situation, if there was something else on their mind that day, either very positive or negative, or if their condition was affecting them for the worse or better that day. What you see thus might not be them on an average day.

    Remember too, the internet and social media can be both great, but bad for your health, with both benefits using such but harms. Look at all the spams and junk mail that everyone receives daily. Those are usually people trying to get money or something from you. Those persons who create such and send such lie often, but they are looking for naive persons. Twitter is filled mostly with business solicitations. Facebook can be filled with predators.

    Then there are the pleasers and avoiders. I used to always be that way. I could avoid people that were too harsh or truthful in what they said, which made me more sensitive to critiques and rejection, but at the same time, at times, tell someone what they wanted to hear to be liked more, or to prevent more pain, if I had the ability then to think that quickly and tell such a quick fib. Those with poor self esteem like me during those younger years wanted to fit in. I eventually learned it was not worth all those efforts. I focused just on what I wanted to do for me.

    So Lundi, there is no right or wrong way for you to process things, as each needs to do what is best for them, but realize that thinking extremely one way or the other, in terms of everything is true, or everyone is lying, probably will result either in more harms against you or more pain in this world, unless you avoid yourself from everyone in life, or have your parents be with you at all times and tell you who to trust or not, or what those others meant by their actions or sayings or not.

    Otherwise, it could be best to realize that most people in life mean well, or mean no harm, if any small or bigger lie or secrecy on occasion occurs. Yes, there is a smaller percentage of the population that will lie often and feel no regret over that, either because of personality defect, or as they were trained to do this to take advantage of others..These people are the ones often in very powerful positions, desiring to get some satisfaction easily, or desiring wealth or prestige, with them trampling over anyone in their way. Those with conditions also need to thus be careful who they advertise their conditions to, for these reasons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  10. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. You need to learn a new skill.
     
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  11. xudo

    xudo something

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    This is me. I was (maybe not quite to the extent of the OP) naive when I was growing up. So called friends treated me badly and I just thought that was how friends treated each other. People took advantage and made fun of me because they knew I was naive and would take them at their word or not get that they were mocking me. This led to me now just assuming everyone is a dink who doesn't really want to be my friend, even if they say they do.

    I guess you need some way to learn that not everyone is always going to be honest and have the best intentions, but it doesn't mean that you should avoid everyone. As for me, I'm good with avoiding 99% of people from now on.
     
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  12. WildCat

    WildCat and his scatterbrain V.I.P Member

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    I don't have a single one-size-fits-all solution for this at all having been in the same position as many others here, but it's far from impossible. I used to have a bad case of RBF (or RAF?) and a short fuse, which has its drawbacks and advantages and is possibly the reason why people have hesitated to try anything stupid in the past. Don't know, but your body language plays a large part in how people interact with you whether or not you are aware of it, so reading up on that might be a good start.

    Just a tip here, but start analyzing the hell out of people and their behavior. This also unfortunately (face to face anyways) means paying attention to body language and making dreaded eye contact along with maintaining your own composure, which I'm in no position to pass judgment on to anyone here. It is daunting, yeah, but all those signals you're missing didn't materialize out of thin air for no reason.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  13. Aspychata

    Aspychata My Art Work

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    The way l analyze is way faster, why would this person be motivated to lie or harm me? So a salesperson is motivated to take my money, a so called friend who starts asking me about money is not a friend.

    You fill in the boxes. If someone is asking me my personal info, my alarm is already saying - intruder alert intruder alert- Why does the person need to know and do l need to think about the police. Any type of physical or psychological manipulation means you need to start taking stock and remembering every detail going down. You should immediately extract yourself from the situtation and resolve to study how it progressed and never relive it. So my point is? You may end up in such position, at that point your emotions should vanish and you should run your think tank on pure survival mode.

    In the same mode: l don't ask people about their personal stuff, because it's not my business.
     
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  14. Streetwise

    Streetwise very cautious contributor V.I.P Member

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    ask them why they want it !if they won’t tell you don’t give them it!
     
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  15. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

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    Usually not good enough.

    Someone determined to scam you will simply lie if asked why they want it.
     
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  16. Aspychata

    Aspychata My Art Work

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    In one state in the US, the motor vehicle dept asked for my social security number for my driving license. l told them l don't want my SS on my license, then they told me , we will assign a number then. So it helps to speak up, ask questions.
     
  17. OrdinaryCitizen

    OrdinaryCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Lundi your parents never thought you not to talk with strangers or not to trust strangers?
     
  18. Fade2black

    Fade2black Active Member

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    OP, I couldn't have explained it better. You appear to be younger, younger than me. I have never been dishonest, so I've always assumed everyone is honest like me. This has lead to extreme gullibility a naivety, at my expense. When I finally learned there are a lot of dishonest people, I switched from trusting everyone to not trusting anyone. Basic black and white thinking associated with autism. I'm 57 now and have been married six times. The first five times were by women who used me for their personal gain, again....at my expense. After divorcing they all admitted I was an easy target but also admitted that they regretted taking advantage of me because tricking me was as easy as tricking an innocent child. I really had no idea. My wife now wants nothing but stability in life and I sometimes wonder if she is on the spectrum, too. Anyway, your self prophecy is normal for people like us.
     
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  19. Rasputin

    Rasputin Active Member

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    This is a fascinating discussion, because I have also had similar experiences. Now I do not trust anyone, including doctors. And people have generally proven that they are not trustworthy. The one exception is a close friend who passed away three years ago. This friend had unquestioned character, and earned my trust. I have not known many people like that. Because of this trust issue I test or research anything I am told to obtain corroborating evidence.

    I don't think being cautious in trusting people is bad. However, I wish I were able to trust more easily.
     
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  20. Lundi

    Lundi Well-Known Member

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    In the past couple of months I have tried slowly letting myself trust people as acquaintances. Problem is often I give them a chance and then they backstab me by insulting/making fun of me, spreading gossip or some other type of backstabbing. Then I go back to the "trust no one" mentality.

    This is one of the many ways where things are like a pendulum--the ball moves all the way in one direction or the other. It seems like when I gave people a little chance to get to know me, they use that chance to take advantage and screw me over somehow. I think that those bad experiences probably influenced my instinctive feeling of "everyone is trying to f me over".

    That does not account for the people whom I have known for years and still backstab me despite having been (or most likely, having pretended to be), my friend or acquaintance.

    The only non-family person whom I trust is a good friend from school whom I have known since we were around age 5. He has never spread gossip to me or backstabbed in any way like other people tend to do.

    I only really trust my parents in the family anyway, and most extended family are backstabbers as well. Extended family is gossip galore, so much so that I refuse to meet with any of them during any of their family gatherings. Even now, during Thanksgiving. Although to be honest, I do not even celebrate Thanksgiving in the first place.
     
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