Excuse my autism but...

[LadyS]

For those who have come out to family and friends, are you open about using certain autistic traits as a way to get out of doing certain things that might cause you anxiety or pain? For instance, like not going to places that have bright lights or loud sounds if that bothers you or social anxiety to excuse yourself from social obligations or events. Are people generally accepting or understanding when you do or not? Has it caused any disruption in your social life?

I'm still toying with the idea of coming out to a couple of close friends. But recently, I was triggered by one of these friends unexpectedly.

Backstory: My friend's husband decided to host a weekend long poker tournament at their home as a way to reconnect with all of his old out-of-town friends. My friend wasn't too thrilled of the idea of having a bunch of men drinking and whatnot in her home with her two young ones so she said she and the kids weren't going to stay there during that time. As a friendly gesture I offered my place to stay, because she would have done the same for me and she said she would think about it.

Later on, long story short, she decided to stay one night at my place but without any warning or permission, also invited two other mutual friends to stay too (one of them has 3 small kids as well). After that my anxiety level pretty much skyrocketed (do I have enough room for everyone, feeding everyone, I've got a baby in the house, they've all visited here before omg can you say LOUD).

Now rewinding. I've been through worse and in the past stuff like this, where friends are coming unexpected or needs a place to stay etc, has happened quite often. It has pretty much been an unspoken thing when it comes to this particular group, so to them this isn't unusual. I just had to suck it up and deal with it and suffer the anxiety afterwards.

However that was pre-diagnosis. Now, I've become "spoiled" with the relief that I am now allowed and justified to feel social anxiety. After realizing I was pushing myself socially and overmasking in the past, I just don't want to anymore. I've become married to the idea that I don't have to do anything that causes me too much anxiety. With the problem now being that it completely conflicts with all my past efforts.

My friendships are all already waning with me becoming more withdrawn since my diagnosis so I don't want to disappoint now. This particular friend has been a really good one however, she has a much different take on friendships than mine. She takes them very seriously and expects the same level of effort from you that she puts in herself which is a lot (keeping in touch, visiting and sending gifts, doing favors, dropping everything to help etc) and I just don't have the same type of drive to do the same, which I'm guessing might be one reason she volunteered me.

Anyway, I'm going to test the waters and maybe mention my social anxiety diagnosis to see if that has any effect.

Luckily my husband is pretty understanding about it and helps me avoid certain situations whenever possible, but I often wonder if sharing my diagnosis might drive others away. I don't want people to get the wrong idea that I don't want to be friends and then completely stay away or be confused about what to do now. But I'm not sure how they can understand now that my boundaries have changed but that I still want to maintain what we already have without all the extra fluff. Does that make any sense?

Ok that was longer than I intended. Sorry for ranting.

 

[Fino]

I consistently assert my needs in order to keep myself comfortable, but I don't use the Autism as the reason. I just explain what is. Autism would be a confusing middle man, in my opinion.

 

[Varzar]

I understand your dilemma..

I would definitely struggle with the notion that people would invite others without warning, but it sounds like that was the way the friendships have always functioned, and you would now be changing the parameters of the friendship by altering that..

How open-minded is she to things like neurodivergence?

From what you've described I sort of feel like one way or another the relationship dynamic is going to change.

1) If you continue as is, without talking about it, the friendships are probably going to continue waning, and it may result in either them just fading away, or it coming to a head resulting in an argument, or a shutdown/meltdown for you.

2) If you talk to her/them, and they don't understand, then they may be upset, the may ditch you, they may think it's an excuse for you not to "do your part".

3) Or, they could be understanding, try to learn more about what they didn't know about you, and accept you for that and try to adapt how they work with you to keep you in their friend circle.

So, ideally it sounds like you'd like it to get to #3. The only way I can see you getting there is by communicating with them about it. That does run the risk of #2 happening instead.. But I feel like if it goes that way, then it was their choice not to accept you for you, and it would've fallen apart sooner or later anyways. It will hurt if that happens I'm sure, but hopefully you could just focus on the good memories while it lasted, and then find others that are more accepting of you.
More hopefully, they accept you, and you end up at #3 where they can know you better and accept that you may not always be able to meet the expectations you have tried so hard to meet in the past.

I hope it all works out for you!!

 

[LadyS]

I understand your dilemma..

I would definitely struggle with the notion that people would invite others without warning, but it sounds like that was the way the friendships have always functioned, and you would now be changing the parameters of the friendship by altering that..

How open-minded is she to things like neurodivergence?

From what you've described I sort of feel like one way or another the relationship dynamic is going to change.

1) If you continue as is, without talking about it, the friendships are probably going to continue waning, and it may result in either them just fading away, or it coming to a head resulting in an argument, or a shutdown/meltdown for you.

2) If you talk to her/them, and they don't understand, then they may be upset, the may ditch you, they may think it's an excuse for you not to "do your part".

3) Or, they could be understanding, try to learn more about what they didn't know about you, and accept you for that and try to adapt how they work with you to keep you in their friend circle.

So, ideally it sounds like you'd like it to get to #3. The only way I can see you getting there is by communicating with them about it. That does run the risk of #2 happening instead.. But I feel like if it goes that way, then it was their choice not to accept you for you, and it would've fallen apart sooner or later anyways. It will hurt if that happens I'm sure, but hopefully you could just focus on the good memories while it lasted, and then find others that are more accepting of you.
More hopefully, they accept you, and you end up at #3 where they can know you better and accept that you may not always be able to meet the expectations you have tried so hard to meet in the past.

I hope it all works out for you!!

Thank you for completely understanding and breaking it down for me. Really appreciate it. I'm hoping for #3 but yes you're right it could go down #2 route. It's gone down that road before with this friend as she has dismissed other things about me. But she is becoming more aware of mental needs, especially after recently losing a close family member that suffered from alcoholism and depression. She knows about my son's diagnosis as well so there is a precursor there too.

 

[Suzanne]

Yes! Just happened recently ie to reduce my severe anxiety levels.

In my faith, we use zoom rooms to get together and often assigned breakout rooms. On advice from one spiritual sister, I felt I ought to try more than one to one, afterall, I can reduce my screen and only have the one talking and me. However, when in more than one to one situations and depending on the other two personalities, mine can diminish considerably and I end up being actually too scared to speak and not sure when to speak or be quiet and this caused me such misery, that for a whole day, I felt utterly lonely and scared and cried so much, but thanks to my faith and praying to my Heavenly Father, Jehovah, I was able to "utilise" my diagnosis of asd and whatsapp each elder ( priest), and explain how stressed and anxious I get with more than one to one and they so kindly, are taking that on board and although my anxiety levels do go on, just before I am accepted on zoom, because I go on camera. But, knowing that I won't have to deal with a sea of faces, helps considerably.

I am certainly more..... confident ( is that the word? Not sure) about being more assertive with my needs, in order to reduce my anxieties.

Also, a dear spiritual sister takes me to do a bit of shopping and I was able to be open and honest and explain how anxious I get, when being at the til and her response was: no worries. I am happy to accompany you. Probably, she is that kind, because one of her brother ( birth family) has social anxiety and could be on the spectrum as well, so she is great at understanding and to a certain point I do feel comfortable around her and that is an achievement, because I rarely feel comfortable around others.

 

[Suzette]

@LadyS, one of the hardest things for me to do in life was to learn to set boundaries.

I used to try to explain my needs to others in hopes that they would be sympathetic and stop their objectional behaviors. But I found that most people, even those who claim to love me, really do not understand, or are incapable of true empathy.

I have found that the best thing for me to do is to set boundaries. "No, I can't do that", "I am sorry that won't be possible", "I don't allow that".

There is an old saying that goes "Never explain yourself to anyone because your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe it." I have found this to be utterly true.

Your friend seems to have very low standards for their own behavior. It is incredibly impolite, even hostile, to invite others into your home and expect you to accept it. This has nothing to do with autisim or your sensory needs. This "friend" was simply out of line! She was very rude and that is really no friend at all.

@Varzar is correct, your friendships will change if you address your needs. That is not a bad thing in any way. Friends who will not accept simple boundaries, such as asking if they can invite others into your home, are not really your friends any way and do not care if you are autistic. They didn't even care that your home is not their personal space to use at their whim.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Good advice above. Everyone is an individual,...as are their friends and family. I got a bit burned from a sister, who I thought was educated and empathetic enough,...and I was wrong. So, I haven't brought it up to anyone else in my family except my wife and two sons,...who, by the way, avoid the topic. It's not that they are giving the excuse to others, "Well, dad is autistic and that's the why he acts that way." Maybe they do when I am not around,...but I suspect not, as I would have probably heard something slip out by now.

As far as expressing symptoms,...yes, they do creep into some social situations. Often times, my typical behavior is to slowly withdrawal from the group, go take a walk, a nap, whatever,...because the reality is that it is mentally exhausting. I've done this from day one with them,...decades before I was diagnosed,...so they've all gotten used to it. I can take people in small doses.

 

[Gerontius]

I explain it as "Not fond of crowds," or "I'm busy at home" or "this is good, but I won't be able to make it there."

I'd be a bit worried though about the transactional nature of your friend's understanding of friendship.

 

[LadyS]

@LadyS, one of the hardest things for me to do in life was to learn to set boundaries.

I used to try to explain my needs to others in hopes that they would be sympathetic and stop their objectional behaviors. But I found that most people, even those who claim to love me, really do not understand, or are incapable of true empathy.

I have found that the best thing for me to do is to set boundaries. "No, I can't do that", "I am sorry that won't be possible", "I don't allow that".

There is an old saying that goes "Never explain yourself to anyone because your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe it." I have found this to be utterly true.

Your friend seems to have very low standards for their own behavior. It is incredibly impolite, even hostile, to invite others into your home and expect you to accept it. This has nothing to do with autisim or your sensory needs. This "friend" was simply out of line! She was very rude and that is really no friend at all.

@Varzar is correct, your friendships will change if you address your needs. That is not a bad thing in any way. Friends who will not accept simple boundaries, such as asking if they can invite others into your home, are not really your friends any way and do not care if you are autistic. They didn't even care that your home is not their personal space to use at their whim.

You are correct, however, I think context does matter in my case. As I said before, this has been a common occurrence in our friendship circle so it's not really abnormal for it to happen. What's changed is that I have new boundaries that they are unaware of. I know she wouldn't have done this if she WAS aware though.

But you are also right in that it was rude without asking if it was okay to have so many people over after only initially offering her. But was actually very uncharacteristic of her to do so with me in particular, so it's left me scratching my head a little.

 

[LadyS]

I'd be a bit worried though about the transactional nature of your friend's understanding of friendship.

Yes, I've frequently side-eyed this trait as well. And not just me. She tends to think that others want the same things she wants (very intensely I might add) and doesn't understand when they don't reciprocate.

Example. This other friend she invited over, years ago lost her baby towards the end of a pregnancy which devastated everyone. We had just thrown her a baby shower two weeks prior. Well my friend insisted that we drive up 4 hours to see her at the hospital to be there for her although the rest of us were not sure if we should so soon after it happened . After all, she just lost her unborn child. If it were me, I wouldn't want to see anyone after that happening, at least not at the hospital. Later I realized that's exactly what SHE would have wanted if it was her, so she automatically thinks others would want the same. So it's good intentions, however not exactly considerate of what others might want.

This is why I'm a bit conflicted about wondering if she will be understanding of my boundaries but not wanting to change our current friendship. But like others have confirmed for me, a friendship needs to be malleable enough to accommodate for new circumstances and change.

 

[Suzette]

@LadyS
If your boundaries have changed, then they have.

I don't think you can assert your boundaries and somehow get your friend to understand with ANY explaination.
It sounds as though your friend has been a sort of defacto social circle leader and she has no personal filter to brake her worst impulsive behaviors. That's not your fault. Nor your responsibility.

Yes, she may be hurt but you don't have to be unkind.

 

[LadyS]

@LadyS
If your boundaries have changed, then they have.

I don't think you can assert your boundaries and somehow get your friend to understand with ANY explaination.
It sounds as though your friend has been a sort of defacto social circle leader and she has no personal filter to brake her worst impulsive behaviors. That's not your fault. Nor your responsibility.

Yes, she may be hurt but you don't have to be unkind.

She's more like the glue that binds the circle together. Basically the only one that keeps in touch with everyone and the one everyone goes to for help or advice. So I think she feels justified for her behavior because she thinks she makes the most effort. But only one way to find out if my explanation will work...I do have faith though that she won't completely abandon me. Many friends have done much worse, but she still holds on to them. I often wonder if being open to her about her impulses might change her ways though. Could happen... and if not so be it.

Also an update: one of the friends, the single one, got Covid and most likely won't come now.

 

[Gerontius]

Yes, I've frequently side-eyed this trait as well. And not just me. She tends to think that others want the same things she wants (very intensely I might add) and doesn't understand when they don't reciprocate.

Example. This other friend she invited over, years ago lost her baby towards the end of a pregnancy which devastated everyone. We had just thrown her a baby shower two weeks prior. Well my friend insisted that we drive up 4 hours to see her at the hospital to be there for her although the rest of us were not sure if we should so soon after it happened . After all, she just lost her unborn child. If it were me, I wouldn't want to see anyone after that happening, at least not at the hospital. Later I realized that's exactly what SHE would have wanted if it was her, so she automatically thinks others would want the same. So it's good intentions, however not exactly considerate of what others might want.

This is why I'm a bit conflicted about wondering if she will be understanding of my boundaries but not wanting to change our current friendship. But like others have confirmed for me, a friendship needs to be malleable enough to accommodate for new circumstances and change.

This is what I would call a lack of theory of mind; it's not the personality that I would find attractive enough to let linger. Of course you're a friend to this person, but I don't tolerate people who insist on everyone wanting the same thing.
Losing a pregnancy is a death in the family--just a small and undeveloped family member. Even if it was a kitten that died, you still don't force sad people to come and perform happiness for you--it's even worse when it's a child. Anyone who would interfere with a mourning ritual--something old as humanity itself--is somewhat wanting in empathy. She may know empathy & be able to explain it, but you have to live it out as well.

I would suggest, in light of your post above mine that I should've quoted--that you start distancing yourself. Not so much avoid but disengaging the clutch and decreasing the RPM's a little. If she really cares she'll ask what's up and you can mention it, but you need to be in control of your own attachments to the people in your life. Otherwise, this person can toss you aside like a dirty rag, and it all be about her.

Sorry to seem really harsh here but this is reality and that's the way things happen. Autistics get taken advantage of frequently, and I want to spare you that, if indeed this is what is happening. Or of course I could be an silly ranter on the Internet.

 

[LadyS]

This is what I would call a lack of theory of mind; it's not the personality that I would find attractive enough to let linger. Of course you're a friend to this person, but I don't tolerate people who insist on everyone wanting the same thing.
Losing a pregnancy is a death in the family--just a small and undeveloped family member. Even if it was a kitten that died, you still don't force sad people to come and perform happiness for you--it's even worse when it's a child. Anyone who would interfere with a mourning ritual--something old as humanity itself--is somewhat wanting in empathy. She may know empathy & be able to explain it, but you have to live it out as well.

I would suggest, in light of your post above mine that I should've quoted--that you start distancing yourself. Not so much avoid but disengaging the clutch and decreasing the RPM's a little. If she really cares she'll ask what's up and you can mention it, but you need to be in control of your own attachments to the people in your life. Otherwise, this person can toss you aside like a dirty rag, and it all be about her.

Sorry to seem really harsh here but this is reality and that's the way things happen. Autistics get taken advantage of frequently, and I want to spare you that, if indeed this is what is happening. Or of course I could be an silly ranter on the Internet.

No I get you. I've already started distancing myself from friends who've taken advantage in the past. This friend has never done that before though so this would be a first. But you're right about slowing down before it does turn down that road.

 

[Suzette]

@LadyS, my personal thoughts about your friends behavior is not relevant to you. I am sorry if my previous comments made you think I think so. I don't! Some of my friends are objectionable to others, but I embrace them with full awareness of their flaws.

But I do think learning to set boundaries and learning how to be comfortable doing so will be of great benefit to you.

I think there are a lot of boundaries that we on the spectrum might make that would not occur to nt folk. But I do not think disclosing your nd status would help you or even be relevant.

There is nothing unkind or standoffish in stateing you personal needs or opinion on matters. The trick is to remain friendly but dispassionate about others trying to change your mind. "That is a lovely idea but it won't work for me.". You hold your ground firmly but without drama.

Friends who are unwilling to respect your boundaries are not really friends. I know some people can seem like a force of nature but they are just humans and, like all of us, they may need to learn to accept "no" without taking it personally.

 

[Varzar]

@LadyS Curious.. Does this sound like your friend?

Blue- Positives:

They have a strong sense of right and wrong. Ethics and integrity is two strong attributes they possess. A blue love to serve others and give freely. If you want a job done to the finest detail then you need to ask a blue as some are perfectionists and won’t stop till they can give you a quality which they themselves will feel proud of. They are very analytical and everything is about quality for them. They are dependable, hardworking and incredibly loyal.

Blue – Negatives:
They can often be very judgmental, controlling and self-righteous due to their high expectations for themselves and others. Because they want perfection they can be very worry-prone and moody due to the stress they are constantly under. They need peoples approval, can feel rejected easily and often are insecure.

What a blue expects from you:
A blue will expect from you what they expect from themselves. They want sincerity from all they associate with and can feel very quickly if you are not. A blue demand, love, kindness, loyalty, understanding and appreciation. Communication is key for them, being loving and kind in your approach will calm them down when upset. Give them security and the space to be creative. Accept them for who they are (givers) and assist them when they overload their plates because as people pleasers they struggle to say no.

 

[Tom]

Good on you for surviving, with good grace, the Aspie version of a house of horrors.

TBH I am not sure. I think it has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. I generally have ducked much as a result of moving often (military) and being far away from family and whatever friends we had. But the friends were mostly my wife's arrangement to begin with. I only find one on the basis of shared interest, here and there. The benefit of moving is that it is easy to just not make so many new friends and so those are winnowed away over time and just family mainly is left. My wife still maintains a active friend circle but now I am usually not involved as the kids are grown and we don't do socializing as a family.

With those we are closest with friend-wise, we do usually establish that I am the hermit-ish one, and I usually pass on events. But we do not talk about autism except in very close/trusted cases where the person already knows me and sees and accepts my nature first and then the explanation can follow. I think you are right in having caution because it seems people can have very varied and sometimes negative responses to finding out. Without knowing much people can adopt a very prejudical view of autism. It is just an unfortunate common situation that people do not really believe conditions they can not clearly see.

 

[LadyS]

@LadyS Curious.. Does this sound like your friend?

Haha yes. To a T.

 

[Ken]

This particular friend has been a really good one however, she has a much different take on friendships than mine. She takes them very seriously and expects the same level of effort from you that she puts in herself which is a lot (keeping in touch, visiting and sending gifts, doing favors, dropping everything to help etc) and I just don't have the same type of drive to do the same, which I'm guessing might be one reason she volunteered me.

This is not a level playing field in regard to rating levels of friendship. Your friend's friendship efforts is easy for her. She likes it. It would be stressful for her if she could not do it. You are on the other side. It is enormously difficult for you. It is not easy at all. Friendship management between you and your friend is totally different and are not comparable. Due to the anxiety burden social gatherings inflict on you, going ahead and doing it places your efforts far above hers because it is not an anxiety burden for her.

My wife is very NT. She requires social contact and becomes deeply depressed if she is not in frequent contact with friends and family. I, on the other hand, suffer intense social anxiety - like you. This creates a tension between us. Fortunately, we both understand each other's feelings, but it is still very hard to figure out how to satisfy her social necessities with my social anxieties. At this point, we have only figured out to try to balance our suffering so neither of us is totally depressed. I guess life is all about balance.

 

[LadyS]

Good on you for surviving, with good grace, the Aspie version of a house of horrors.

TBH I am not sure. I think it has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. I generally have ducked much as a result of moving often (military) and being far away from family and whatever friends we had. But the friends were mostly my wife's arrangement to begin with. I only find one on the basis of shared interest, here and there. The benefit of moving is that it is easy to just not make so many new friends and so those are winnowed away over time and just family mainly is left. My wife still maintains a active friend circle but now I am usually not involved as the kids are grown and we don't do socializing as a family.

With those we are closest with friend-wise, we do usually establish that I am the hermit-ish one, and I usually pass on events. But we do not talk about autism except in very close/trusted cases where the person already knows me and sees and accepts my nature first and then the explanation can follow. I think you are right in having caution because it seems people can have very varied and sometimes negative responses to finding out. Without knowing much people can adopt a very prejudical view of autism. It is just an unfortunate common situation that people do not really believe conditions they can not clearly see.

Haa.. definitely the house of horrors on the social side. I feel like the only reason I survived was because I was born into that way of life and was "trained" from the start on the art of putting others above my own needs. It has its pros and cons. But it always felt off to me.

In another circle I'm probably more known as the crafty, smarty pants who's always ready to engage in some sort of activity rather than sit around and small talk. They definitely don't call me over to shoot the breeze.