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Featured DSM-5 says that we have difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated.

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Ihaveaspergers, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. Ihaveaspergers

    Ihaveaspergers Active Member

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    DSM-5 says that we have difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated.
    Doesn't non-autistic people also need things explicitly stated?
    To me "explicitly stated" sounds like "non-political way of speaking".
    I talked with a professional (who works with autistic people like me) about this. We came to the conclusion that non-austic might miss a lot and get confused & frustrated when they don't explicitly state something. Sure, they might be more flexible so they don't always need things to be explicitly stated even if that would be much better.
    What do you think?
     
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  2. Statest16

    Statest16 Active Member

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    Theory of mind is theory not science,it's not absolute.A NT will be better at non verbal understanding than a autistic person.That doesn't mean autistics don't sometimes pick up on non verbal cues,and NT's sometimes miss cue's themselves.It's a grey area,and some NT's are better than other NT's at theory of mind and non verbal communication.
     
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  3. menander

    menander Well-Known Member

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    I think it depends on what the majority does. NT's do a lot of communicating in a certain way. We don't. It's not a lack on our part because they lack what we possess. It's just a difference. I get what it's saying, but to me it always meant we never learned the layers of Fake needed to adjust to this society. And I am not saying Fake is bad. It really is necessary. I've tried and things went much better but then I could not keep it up.
     
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  4. Matthias

    Matthias Well-Known Member

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    While everyone can miss things that aren't explicitly stated, autistic people are more likely to need things explicitly stated due to higher levels of stress affecting the brain which impairs the ability to read social cues, nonverbal body language, non-literal language, and hidden meanings in statements.
     
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  5. Moonhart44

    Moonhart44 Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I see how my clients look at me when i am constantly trying to rephrase what they say. NT use a lot of words when they should use less. I am of the belief that if you know what youre talking about, you should be ablet o say it simply. so i am already irritated when i hear a lot of words, and they cant give me a simple yes or no when i rephrase it.

    however i'm learning they are actually thinking i'm stupid because i am "rewording" what theyre saying several times and it seems like "i dont get it " but i just dont want any room for a metaphorically based mixup
     
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  6. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I don't understand.
     
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  7. Kit

    Kit Well-Known Member

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    When I was a kid, I was very bad at this I was not even allowed in homes because I did stuff I didn't know I wasn't supposed to do because no one ever told me I needed permission to play with some set where you make gummies and it had to be done in the kitchen. I have even been not allowed in homes because of me not knowing their rules.

    There have been NTs kids my brothers knew who also needed things stated to them by my parents because they were never taught how to behave in peoples homes. They came from dysfunctional homes and had also been banned from homes as well because they did something and didn't know they weren't supposed to do it. One thing I learned on Reddit that shocked me is people thinking it's okay to raid someone's fridge as a guest. I had been taught as a kid this is very rude and if you a uninvited guest, it's rude to ask for food. Unless you have been invited to stay, it is fine to ask for something to eat but not raid their kitchen. This must be cultural because if someone did that to my house, I would be very upset and appalled that someone would find this okay and not let them back in my home if they thought this was acceptable. If they thought this was okay, I would wonder what else are they going to do in my home?
     
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  8. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    IMO this goes back to numerous posts regarding what we largely consider to be so many "unwritten rules".

    Those protocols (particularly social ones) that NTs are far more likely to take for granted that which many of us on the spectrum may not be fully aware of. Often compounded by those of us who are prone to express ourselves in only "black and white" terms void of any metaphors.

    Though personally I find myself using many more words to express myself than any NT in my social orbit. I'm not seeking a concise explanation of things so much as an explanation I can understand with my own point of view. Which doesn't necessarily mean with the fewest words possible.
     
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  9. Ihaveaspergers

    Ihaveaspergers Active Member

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    I'm one of the language guys here.
    You could say: "Erik, open the window!". This is not how people ussually speak. Imperatives do not always sound too nice. It feels more like a way of speaking I have heard in military movies.
    You could say: "Erik, could you open the window.". Some people could think it is a question but you would say the same sentence a bit differently if it were an actually question.
    This is something I have no problem with at all. It could be a problem in other situations.
    I guess APA (which means monkey or ape in my native tongue) in DSM-5 say that aspies just focus on the word meaning and grammar but never on other things used in communication.
     
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  10. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    The brains a bit different and it functions a bit differently, I think, and I wonder if it's quite hard for the NT brained to get the hang of how we are, with the added issue that we don't get them either. The criteria are written based on someone outside looking at behaviours, rather than the actual way we are.

    Although stress probably contributes to how the person acts sometimes, I don't believe it's stress that causes these communication issues, I think it's the different way the brain is. The social and communication issues and difficulties I've always noticed haven't altered over most of my life, irrespective of stress.

    I do think that we miss parts of what's there to be perceived for NTs, and it's hard to realise that when for us it's simply not there. So possibly the explicit statement is the only way we would understand them. However, I do question too whether some of what's important to NTs would be meaningful or important to many Aspies.
     
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  11. Au Naturel

    Au Naturel Au Naturel

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    NTs are all about hinting and talking around a subject and implying things without saying them. And things that don't need to be said because obviously everyone knows them. You're expected to read between the lines, modify everything said by context, pick up on the body language and vocal intonation, and hear what is not being said as much as what they say.

    Unless they're talking about something technical or they are talking to children, it is just how they communicate. It is kind of like I am verbally colorblind.
     
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  12. Aspychata

    Aspychata Serenity waves, beachy vibes

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    I like the layers of Fake. Lol. Next we will be having how to improve your communication technique especially concentrating on *Get your Fake on*, increasing your chances of better jobs, relationships, etc. etc.etc. This would be a ND course description probably.
     
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  13. Gracey

    Gracey Well-Known Member

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    During one (brief) job I had waiting on tables at a cafe,

    the manager instructed me to "Go and check the toilets"

    I waited a second or two in hope of more information,

    in that brief pause I wondered if they were leaking or blocked. Do I need to take a mop and bucket? industrial gloves for the blockage?
    I could recall my limited knowledge of toilets and wondered if the skills of a plumber would be needed.

    when no more information came I asked "for what?"

    he thought me impertinent and in a frustrated- because it's obvious, type of voice said "full bins, toilet roll..."

    His specific noun (toilets) had me focused on the toilet itself.

    Should he have said 'rest room, bathroom or similar, I'd have known to check 'the room'
    all of the room.
    dirty mirrors, low levels of hand soap, t.p, wet floors, messy toilet seats etc.

    All other 'waiting on' employees knew what "check the toilets" meant.
    I learned the harder way :)
     
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  14. Deepthought

    Deepthought Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Aspychata

    Aspychata Serenity waves, beachy vibes

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    Like we have to actually stop, focus clearly on the words, and scratch our brains for the basic info of what is being asked. I would think- checking to see if customer is in the stall? The toilet is clogged? Looking for a employee?
     
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  16. SusanLR

    SusanLR Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    @Gracey This is so how I think also.
    If I were told to go check the toilet, that is what I would reply. For what?
    Or I would go check "the toilet."
    Come back to the person who gave the order and tell them the toilet looks fine to me!
    To do what I guess this person was wanting, the statement "go check the toilet areas and tidy up
    if needed" would achieve the purpose.

    I am so literal and need to hear the facts. Only the facts.
     
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  17. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

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    I think that those instructions are not obvious, not for anyone. In the UK at least, "toilets" can refer to either the room, or the actual toilet itself, and if it isn't specified which one is meant, you have no way of knowing which one is referred to. And "check" is vague - check what? It's not immediately obvious, and the other empolyees only know it because they have heard it before and so know now what the intruction means.

    If a supervisor or manager is giving instructions to employees, then it's up to them to issue clear instructions. If they don't, then it's poor communication on their part, and not the employee's fault for not understanding.
     
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  18. Kit

    Kit Well-Known Member

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    Weird thing is, they don't think this is some sort of game and they think having to spell everything out to people means you are stupid. Yes they do actually believe this because of you know Reddit and there is AITA Twitter page where I learned they don't see this as a game.
     
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  19. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    But there really are courses for this, that may as well have that title, completely about what they call networking etc.

    You don't have to be interested in chatting to the stranger at a meeting, you just have to learn how to fake it convincingly, also bigging up your employer who really is a shambles of disorganisation and mean minded too, then take your plump pay packet and go home after another day of useless chat at the office. And if you don't see the point, you're not on side for your organisation...
     
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  20. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yes indeed, and I watch them thinking I am stupid and wonder about how narrow and limited their viewpoints are. There's a limit to the usefulness of social conventions and norms. We may be uneven but being unable to accept our limitations makes them miss out on our abilities and strengths.
     
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