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Do you like animals?

BrokenBoy

戯言使い(Nonsense User)
I aggressively don't care about them. My apathy becomes hate due to how extreme it is. I see them as no different than any background object or "prop" you see around your house. The reason for this because they cannot communicate verbally, in the same language as human beings. I don't see anything I can't communicate with in human language as an equal or worth giving common decency or respect to.
 

Nitro

Admin/Immoral Turpitude
Staff member
Admin
V.I.P Member
I don't see it that way at all.
A pet's love is unconditional when they become an integral part of your life.
That goes both way.

I often prefer the company of my pets over some humans.
 

Bolletje

Overly complicated potato
V.I.P Member
I love animals. They’re my preferred company and they generally have a soothing effect on me. They may not communicate verbally, but there’s so much non-verbal communication going on. I love how there’s so much variation between animals of the same species too. My two cats have very distinct personalities and their own vocalizations and non-verbal communication style. I’m adopting another cat soon and I’m very much looking forward to getting to know their personality too.
I can imagine a life without pets, sure, but it’s not a life I want. For me, life is just better with animal cuddles.
 

Darkkin

Lioness of Spoons
V.I.P Member
As Hagrid so brilliantly observed in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. 'Ah, well, people can be a bit stupid about their pets.'

I've had pets my entire life. That will never change. They are a source of joy, purpose, and structure. And they have the power to make us better as human beings. They teach us empathy, patience, responsibility, reliability, etc...

They are conscious, sentient creatures. A product of human society and thusly, are our responsibility. They are not props or background clutter. They are an integral part of one's reality.
 
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tree

Blue/Green
Staff member
V.I.P Member
I aggressively don't care about them. My apathy becomes hate due to how extreme it is. I see them as no different than any background object or "prop" you see around your house. The reason for this because they cannot communicate verbally, in the same language as human beings. I don't see anything I can't communicate with in human language as an equal or worth giving common decency or respect to.


So, if I were deaf and/or mute, I wouldn't deserve your respect?

You'd kick me, slap me, toss me in the trash?
 

clg114

Still crazy, after all these years.
Staff member
V.I.P Member
Our kids have left the nest years ago and have families of their own. Now our Chihuahuas are our babies. We need them.
 

BrokenBoy

戯言使い(Nonsense User)
So, if I were deaf and/or mute, I wouldn't deserve your respect?

You'd kick me, slap me, toss me in the trash?
No because I would go to jail for that. Just because I don't like you doesn't mean I'll physically hurt you. There's a huge difference there.
 

tree

Blue/Green
Staff member
V.I.P Member
Can you clarify that?


What's the huge difference?

Lack of interest?
Like, why bother to mess with garbage?

Or what are you saying?
 

Darkkin

Lioness of Spoons
V.I.P Member
People go to prison for doing the same to animals, too. And rightly so. Animals have no voice to speak out, but it doesn't mean they do not understand pain, anger, and in many cases contempt and/or hatred. If a person can victimize an animal, they can do it to people, too.

This is a vitriolic topic, especially given how many autistics, on this forum in particular, love their pets.

Don't add fuel to a dumpster fire. Hug your pet(s) and keep helping those in need.

There are some things that can never be changed and contempt for those seen as 'less' for whatever reason is one of those things.
 
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Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I love animals. I'm not a huge dog person but dogs can be amazing--cats are more my speed, and I used to rescue wild birds. I used to hunt a lot, but kind of quit. Hunting was turning into a way to sit in a tree and watch deer and raccoons, and lugging a heavy and fragile wooden rifle into the woods & climbing a tree with it wasn't necessary if I just wanted to go birdwatching.

This horse is one that I was riding -- at this particular barn it is the responsibility of the rider to groom & tack up his or her own mount (even if you don't own the horse, they still hand you a rope with a wet rained-on horse on the other end of it. Sometimes horses seem to enjoy playing in the rain--even with an open stable door they will go out & stand in the rain in herds.) Anyway he had taught himself to give people hugs. It was the weirdest thing. If I was standing near his head, he would crook his neck around my body.

The photograph turned out poor because when I took it, he was trying to fit his whole neck through the window of the stall and come visit. Typical.

How someone can look at an animal and see an object? I have no idea. Some humans are mute, too. Even I sometimes cannot talk, and get tongue-tied. I communicate poorly in general, even on here. Communication does not equal worth; our animal friends might not be able to talk but they are alive.

And they communicate in their own ways, too. Cats that look at people and blink slowly are showing trust. Mister B. the horse trying to crook his neck around people, bear-hug style, is being playful but showing a form of primitive affection. Dogs can use the subcutaneous muscles of their faces to show some basic emotion. I really do not see objective value in the idea that animals are but props. Rene Descartes did, and ended up torturing dogs to death in public--one reason I tend to avoid Cartesian or derivative systems of philosophy. (He was better at mathematics than at ethics.)

B yet more.jpg
 

BrokenBoy

戯言使い(Nonsense User)
Can you clarify that?


What's the huge difference?

Lack of interest?
Like, why bother to mess with garbage?

Or what are you saying?
I don't like jail food. I also assumed earlier that animal murders wouldn't get you sent to prison, not that I've done such a thing.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I don't like jail food. I also assumed earlier that animal murders wouldn't get you sent to prison, not that I've done such a thing.

OK, now that I've made the nice reply--If the only thing that keeps you from committing base cruelty is that you are too good for prison, then prison, I fear, may be too good for you. There are decent people behind bars, but there's no decent person hiding behind solipsism.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
As Hagrid so brilliantly observed in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. 'Ah, well, people can be a bit stupid about their pets.'

I've had pets my entire life. That will never change. They are a source of joy, purpose, and structure. And they have the power to make us better as human beings. They teach us empathy, patience, responsibility, reliability, etc...

They are conscious, sentient creatures. A product of human society and thusly, are our responsibility. They are not props or background clutter. They are an integral part of one's reality.

@crewlucaa_ reminds me of you in a way, in that she also likes animals. I think she's pretty heavily involved with dogs, but that is her story to tell and not mine.

I agree completely with you that animals can make us more fully human.
 

Darkkin

Lioness of Spoons
V.I.P Member
68% of US households have pets of some kind.

Looking to stir a pot and make people aggressively upset, target their pets. It is the most vulnerable spot and people will defend it for all they are worth. Be aware that it is a manipulative tactic.
 

LadyS

Just here for the ambedo
V.I.P Member
I love animals more than humans for sure. Mostly because they don't hate for odd reasons like humans do. Just do what they do to survive and that's it.

Does sound like a sign of ASPD though (antisocial personality). Do you think this could be the case? No judgment.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Oh, and I found some more pictures.
This is what happens when people see and use animals as a background object, no different from a "prop" around the house. This was Remi.

Remi is a thoroughbred racehorse retired from the track after winning exactly one race in his life. Unfortunately, since racehorses are not trained to be comfortable in their own skin, and temperament is not as important a trait selected in breeding them, they develop nervous problems sometimes. I got to get to know him over there at the barn as well. (Note the other one in the background--standing still for once.) He's very physically fit and should probably live to about 30 years of age.

Remi was incredibly gentle but picked up a very bad habit of cribbing, so he will have to wear a cribbing collar for what years he's got left. I had him turn his head for this picture so it wouldn't show, as it looks ridiculous on him--but not quite as ridiculous as all the mangers, fences, and barn doors he ruins on a regular basis. Cribbing= hooking his teeth into the top rail of a fence or the door of his stall and pulling as hard as he can. It is an equine version of a self-stimulating behavior. Stimming is visible enough when it's Steve in Accounting clicking a ball-point pen; when it's a 1200-pound horse biting chunks out of 2x6 planks it gets old quickly. He can't be trained out of it.

Sure, he lives a pretty decent life. He's quite fortunate because many retired racehorses are put on stock trucks, shipped to Canada or Mexico without food or water, and slaughtered--still, it'd be nice if he didn't have to have a piece of cast aluminum buckled under his chin 24 hours a day to keep him from eating the furniture. He's happy when he's at work with his rider or socializing with the other horses.

Treating animals as things for profit is going to have negative results for the people and the animal. Just because he was a lousy racehorse didn't mean he'd be sub-par at anything else; I asked his owner and she said he was fast enough (which is correct) and he's excelled in other disciplines. The sunk-cost fallacy of trying to make him into something he just didn't seem to want to be good at wasted time and money for the owner and gave him either a silly-looking "cribbing collar" or a very bad habit of eating boards.

They're not props, tools, or investments--they are just plain animals, and that's good.

Remi.jpg
 

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Darkkin

Lioness of Spoons
V.I.P Member
20220629_170010.jpg


This is Rue Dog. I've had him for nearly twelve years and in that time, he has be instrumental in saving my life more than half a dozen times. (He alerts when he senses something is off with my cardiac function. He has been right every time, including a clot in my aorta.) Had I not had him or treated him as a prop, I would not be alive. Animals definitely know how to communicate, it is just base ignorance that kepts us from understanding.
 

BrokenBoy

戯言使い(Nonsense User)
I'm not too good with non verbal communication all the time. I'm also pretty sure not being able to understand that is something people on the spectrum go through. I just prefer talking or texting. Humans are good at that, so I talk to them.
 

Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I'm not too good with non verbal communication all the time. I'm also pretty sure not being able to understand that is something people on the spectrum go through. I just prefer talking or texting. Humans are good at that, so I talk to them.

This is actually really a common experience! I have some of this going on too. It's why I shut down sometimes when speaking to people esp. if I don't know how they'll receive an idea, and why I write instead of talk when I really want to make a point.

Animals' nonverbal communications are way easier for people to pick up on, and if you look into animal therapy for autistic people you might be impressed with ways that it helps folks on the spectrum find out how to unlock this mode of communication. There's a reason I keep mentioning horses in this thread. While living out of my car in Vermont I met the great author Tim Hayes, psychologist, professor, scientist, and natural horseman--he devoted some of his writings to exploring autism, autistic people, nonverbal communication, and animals.

Very informative you brought this up. Don't feel like you are on your own out there. Nonverbal communication is a classic barrier for people on the spectrum. You may find that re-phrasing your inner narrative to something a bit more positive will help--I've had to keep doing this over & over again. Depression can be debilitating because it gradually disconnects the individual from reality outside of one's own self.
 

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