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difficulty with gender identity

pastelbloodbath

Active Member
hi, I'm 18 with aspergers and I'm having difficulty sorting myself out. I was diagnosed with gender disorder a few years back and my behaviour has lined up with that pretty well.
I keep having dreams about being partially boy and partially girl, having a flat chest and a deeper voice, but still being physically a woman, and in the dreams I've never been happier, because in the dreams people identify me as a boy and other times a girl.
I don't want people to attribute how I feel to "just being autism" like it's some kind of side effect... I'm going to a therapist soon, should I tell her about these dreams? do you have any gender dysphoria?
 
Androgyny and gender dysphoria supposedly are quite common among those on the spectrum. If you decide to tell her, I'd recommend deciding your stance on it first. If you present it as a problem, she may try to fix it. If you present it as something you enjoy, she's less likely to fix it.

I won't say I'm dysphoric, but I do enjoy androgyny. Sometimes I'll be more masculine, sometimes more feminine, but it's nice being in the middle. And it's fun to keep people guessing, I had a blast with it when my hair was short. :D
 
Gender fluidity is a thing. Maybe reading/learning about it would make you feel more confident about it?

I'm agender, so I don't really feel like anything. I think I'd be equally happy with a male body as with a female one.

Not being bound by the expectations people have to either gender (in that mine is hard to pin down) is freeing.
 
Gender dysphoria certainly has nothing to do with autism, in my research and experience. There's no reason not to tell your therapist, in my opinion. But it's good to have you here! Feel free to contribute, or just kick back and watch. I think you'll find us a friendly bunch. :)
 
Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition. Rest assured you will find a lot of support here. We won't judge you.
 
My doctor specializes in providing primary care for people with gender dysphoria and she told me that ASDs occur more frequently in this population than the "general" population. But, that's not a statement of correlation or causation in any way. The popular opinion likes to distort statistics to mean more than what they actually say.

They are separate issues that can interact in uncomfortable and confusing ways and it can sometimes be very hard to tell which is more responsible for what difficulty that we may be experiencing in life. Socializing, communicating, knowing how and when to use body language to communicate, a lot of these things require a basic level of brain-body-"sense of self" alignment which gender dysphoria can interfere with or indicate an absence of. I think that knowing how to distinguish the effects of autism from the effects of gender dysphoria -- something that I'm only starting to wrap my head around -- could be a worthwhile topic for therapy. But, I'm not sure how you feel about all that.
 
I did want to mention you are still very young, and things may clarify over time. I also think it common for ASD people to be on a longer developmental curve. But I myself never had that sort of questioning and imagine it is quite difficult. I would share the dreams with the therapist. As long as its someone you trust professionally.

I also wanted to say that gender is not (or should not be) a factor in many aspects of life. What you study, your profession, your interests, hobbies, etc. It comes into play with sexuality, relationships, having kids. But you shouldn't think of yourself on a timetable for that, particularly comparing yourself with NTs.

Its the same with features and allowing yourself a wider view. The Barbie Aisle is Fiction, Fantasy. Some of the most beautiful women on earth do not have busts and/or have short hair and/or deep voices.

Last I would say take your time and try not to force decisions upon yourself too fast and before you have had time to fully understand yourself. Be very cautious before taking physiological steps. There are such things as late bloomers as well. One day its blah and the next 'Whoa' hormone city. :D
 
Gender fluidity is a thing. Maybe reading/learning about it would make you feel more confident about it?

I'm agender, so I don't really feel like anything. I think I'd be equally happy with a male body as with a female one.

Not being bound by the expectations people have to either gender (in that mine is hard to pin down) is freeing.

I do identify as gender fluid, and I feel more complete as a person for it.... but I feel like something is missing
 
You are definitely accepted here, but why not get your money's worth and tell the doctor anything you think may be important.
 
My doctor specializes in providing primary care for people with gender dysphoria and she told me that ASDs occur more frequently in this population than the "general" population. But, that's not a statement of correlation or causation in any way. The popular opinion likes to distort statistics to mean more than what they actually say.


I personally would be more inclined to say what you wrote in reverse; not that "ASDs occur more frequently in this population" but that complex gender identity (and non-hetero sexual orientation) occur more frequently among people with ASDs. No direct correlation has been identified, but there is more and more clinical documentation of common co-occurrence (DeVries et al, and others). I've wondered if one of the consequences of our particular neurology and the way we think predisposes many of us to rejecting accepted social norms when it comes to sex and gender, at a very fundamental level. Whether we regard that as a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual in the context of their own experience.

I do identify as gender fluid, and I feel more complete as a person for it.... but I feel like something is missing


Welcome to AC, Pastel. :)

You may find that what's missing isn't inside you, but external. Despite increased awareness of gender dysphoria/fluidity of late, there is still no socially accepted model or very visible identity group for your gender status. We develop as people in large part by finding mirrors of ourselves and our experiences in the communities/societies in which we live. Lacking enough of those mirrors, for critical parts of us, can leave us feeling a little lost and incomplete.

I see from your profile that you're 18. Most young adults have a good sense of their gender/sexual identity by the end of adolescence, so this may in fact be the "you" that will endure. I'm a heterosexual-leaning bisexual who identifies as more or less gender fluid. When I was your age, in the late 1980s, I had already gone through a few years of significant confusion for my sexual and gender identities because back then nobody talked about anything but binaries (gay/straight, cisgender/transgender), and only the "normal" side of those pairings was considered at all acceptable. While it's good that you're reaching adulthood in a much more enlightened time, those of us who live in the gray areas of the sex/gender spectra are still under-recognized and misunderstood, so the path to full self-acceptance remains very bumpy.

As for whether or not you should tell your therapist, I'd say that it's only worth doing if it's directly relevant to what you're seeing them for. If you are seeking therapy for things related to your previous diagnosis of a "gender disorder", then it would be a good idea to share your dreams and the fact that within them, you are happy with fluidity. Those positive feelings, even just in dreams, can make it clearer to your therapist that you aren't necessarily looking to be "fixed" in any way, and could be very good fodder for a discussion about where your head is at on all of this. Just be sure that your therapist doesn't try to go down the path of blaming your "confusion" on your autism. It happens, and it doesn't end well. The last thing you need is to be told that your autism is complicating your essential self-concept. As you may have noticed here on AC, plenty of autistics know darn well who they are, even better than many NTs.

Keep sharing about this journey of yours with us. You've found a particularly empathetic group for this aspect of your life.
 
I personally would be more inclined to say what you wrote in reverse; not that "ASDs occur more frequently in this population" but that complex gender identity (and non-hetero sexual orientation) occur more frequently among people with ASDs. No direct correlation has been identified, but there is more and more clinical documentation of common co-occurrence (DeVries et al, and others). I've wondered if one of the consequences of our particular neurology and the way we think predisposes many of us to rejecting accepted social norms when it comes to sex and gender, at a very fundamental level. Whether we regard that as a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual in the context of their own experience.




Welcome to AC, Pastel. :)

You may find that what's missing isn't inside you, but external. Despite increased awareness of gender dysphoria/fluidity of late, there is still no socially accepted model or very visible identity group for your gender status. We develop as people in large part by finding mirrors of ourselves and our experiences in the communities/societies in which we live. Lacking enough of those mirrors, for critical parts of us, can leave us feeling a little lost and incomplete.

I see from your profile that you're 18. Most young adults have a good sense of their gender/sexual identity by the end of adolescence, so this may in fact be the "you" that will endure. I'm a heterosexual-leaning bisexual who identifies as more or less gender fluid. When I was your age, in the late 1980s, I had already gone through a few years of significant confusion for my sexual and gender identities because back then nobody talked about anything but binaries (gay/straight, cisgender/transgender), and only the "normal" side of those pairings was considered at all acceptable. While it's good that you're reaching adulthood in a much more enlightened time, those of us who live in the gray areas of the sex/gender spectra are still under-recognized and misunderstood, so the path to full self-acceptance remains very bumpy.

As for whether or not you should tell your therapist, I'd say that it's only worth doing if it's directly relevant to what you're seeing them for. If you are seeking therapy for things related to your previous diagnosis of a "gender disorder", then it would be a good idea to share your dreams and the fact that within them, you are happy with fluidity. Those positive feelings, even just in dreams, can make it clearer to your therapist that you aren't necessarily looking to be "fixed" in any way, and could be very good fodder for a discussion about where your head is at on all of this. Just be sure that your therapist doesn't try to go down the path of blaming your "confusion" on your autism. It happens, and it doesn't end well. The last thing you need is to be told that your autism is complicating your essential self-concept. As you may have noticed here on AC, plenty of autistics know darn well who they are, even better than many NTs.

Keep sharing about this journey of yours with us. You've found a particularly empathetic group for this aspect of your life.

thank you so much! I've been struggling with dysphoria for a few years now, but it's been especially rough the past few weeks. :( it's really nice to have other people like me understand what I'm going through
 
thank you so much! I've been struggling with dysphoria for a few years now, but it's been especially rough the past few weeks. :( it's really nice to have other people like me understand what I'm going through


You're very welcome. :)

Why the extra trouble lately? Do you know?

Have you found any comfort in the recent uptick in public visibility of non-cisgender people? Like Caitlyn Jenner, or the new TV shows about trans kids? I know you're not transgender, but in my own case, I've found a little more strength and validity in the new wave of acceptance that seems to be swelling up around alternative gender identities. Any progress is good progress. You may see a very different social landscape in your lifetime, the way things are going now.
 
I would say my internal gender is fluid. Obviously my body is female and, that's okay with me, I like a lot of things about that body but, most of the time I don't think of myself as even having a gender. In RPG games I always play a male. Publicly I am a female and, privately no gender.

I don't see why so many place such importance on gender. Beyond reproduction, it doesn't matter. Anyone can do anything, be skilled or talented at this or that, excel in this or that subject in school, etc..

As for other people, to me you are whatever gender, if any, you KNOW you are, the body doesn't matter.
 
I would say my internal gender is fluid. Obviously my body is female and, that's okay with me, I like a lot of things about that body but, most of the time I don't think of myself as even having a gender.
I was going to describe what time gender plays in my life, but then with her first two sentences describing herself, Beverly also described me perfectly. Interiorly, I feel neithe female nor male. I have a female body, and I'm perfectly fine with that. If my bodily femaleness were to become even more obvious, by events such as pregnancy, I would be fine with that too. I think pregnancy is a beautiful thing, btw. Probably not actually in my future.

In my memories, I always feel as if that person who was I had short hair, even if at the remembered time I actually had long hair, and I always feel as if my past self had no beasts, no sexual organs, etc. Actually, I feel that way about my present self. Although I'm okay with the knowledge that in reality, my body has all those things.
I still think femaleness is a beautiful thing, probably, although I haven't quite figured out what it is.
 
You're very welcome. :)

Why the extra trouble lately? Do you know?

Have you found any comfort in the recent uptick in public visibility of non-cisgender people? Like Caitlyn Jenner, or the new TV shows about trans kids? I know you're not transgender, but in my own case, I've found a little more strength and validity in the new wave of acceptance that seems to be swelling up around alternative gender identities. Any progress is good progress. You may see a very different social landscape in your lifetime, the way things are going now.
im a little more comforted that there's more support for other genders and identities. but I have no idea why the extra dysphoria is happening lately :( my dreams keep coming back about being more masculine more and more and idk y
 
Sometimes dreams are random. I've gone months and months feeling completely fine only to randomly have a dream one night about some traumatic event and wake up feeling like I'm all the way back at square one again. So, maybe these dreams of yours are random too, or maybe they are not -- perhaps the only way to know is to observe how things develop in the coming days.
 
Sometimes dreams are random. I've gone months and months feeling completely fine only to randomly have a dream one night about some traumatic event and wake up feeling like I'm all the way back at square one again. So, maybe these dreams of yours are random too, or maybe they are not -- perhaps the only way to know is to observe how things develop in the coming days.
the dreams happen way too often to be just random :((
 
I think dreams reflect things that have really caught your attention or lay deeply on your mind. For instance I still have angry dreams 10 years after the events that caused them. It still is in me unresolved.
 
I'm a female anatomically, but inside I don't feel that I'm anything, I'm just me. I don't really know what people mean when they say they feel feminine or masculine, because I have never felt anything like this, and I can't relate to gender stereotypes at all. I resent it when people have expectations of me to be a certain way just because I have a female body. Growing up, I was a tomboy and not interested in girly things. I have a partner and have always had heterosexual relationships, but sex isn't important or even enjoyable - I think I fit better into the asexual category.
 

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