Dating Advice Resources

[Anonymoose45]

Hi all,

I guess I'll start off by saying that it seems dating and romance is where my social difficulties have been most prominent. With only one exception, any woman I'm interested in hasn't returned my interest. I've been on a decent number of dates, but anyone I like is not interested in going on more than two dates with me. I find it exceptionally hard to flirt, and the only time I was able to do it was with my only girlfriend. It feels uncomfortable, and because of my lack of success, I greatly fear saying something that might upset my date.

I thought this might be a good place to ask for any good resources on dating or relationships. Videos, books, or articles would all be helpful. I'd find it especially beneficial if the resources were based on evidence based approaches, and had some science to back up why the approaches are effective. So far, most of the books I've found were not the least bit helpful, and advocated a sexist mentality that was more focused on tricking the person into sleeping with you than in developing a good relationship.

I also lack a lot of familiarity in regards to what's typically expected or not expected during a date. I don't know if I'm supposed to flirt, or how to do so without making my date uncomfortable. I don't know when to try to kiss them, or at what point to have a date at one of our houses (or apartments). Any suggestions on this information would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[Shamar]

Hi all,

I guess I'll start off by saying that it seems dating and romance is where my social difficulties have been most prominent. With only one exception, any woman I'm interested in hasn't returned my interest. I've been on a decent number of dates, but anyone I like is not interested in going on more than two dates with me. I find it exceptionally hard to flirt, and the only time I was able to do it was with my only girlfriend. It feels uncomfortable, and because of my lack of success, I greatly fear saying something that might upset my date.

I thought this might be a good place to ask for any good resources on dating or relationships. Videos, books, or articles would all be helpful. I'd find it especially beneficial if the resources were based on evidence based approaches, and had some science to back up why the approaches are effective. So far, most of the books I've found were not the least bit helpful, and advocated a sexist mentality that was more focused on tricking the person into sleeping with you than in developing a good relationship.

I also lack a lot of familiarity in regards to what's typically expected or not expected during a date. I don't know if I'm supposed to flirt, or how to do so without making my date uncomfortable. I don't know when to try to kiss them, or at what point to have a date at one of our houses (or apartments). Any suggestions on this information would also be greatly appreciated.

Sorry, can't help you with that. Judging from your post and the fact you are here, I assume you are autistic. This means you have social limitations, and will have to function within those limitations. You probably knew that, at least internally, but it helps to have it spelled out from an outside source.

You are probably aware that there are lots of resources for NT people, but a woeful lack of help for those like us who really need it. A big part of the problem is that we do not understand social signals and subtleties. Everything has to be clear and unambiguous. The best I (or anyone here) can do is tell you our own experiences. At least you will know you are not alone.

I am totally incapable of approaching a woman socially. When I try (I could work up the courage to do this less than once a year), it's like wading through molasses which gets thicker and deeper the closer I get. Sweat, shakes, tension, hard to breathe. Then, if I can get close enough to talk, I get brain paralysis, and can't say anything. If the woman comes to me it gets much easier, but she still has to show an unambiguous interest. For example, one time at a party a girl came up to me, sat on my lap, and proceeded to try and suck my teeth out. I concluded she was interested, and things went well the rest of the evening. I was on a foreign project at the time and never saw her again.

 

[Anonymoose45]

Sorry, can't help you with that. Judging from your post and the fact you are here, I assume you are autistic. This means you have social limitations, and will have to function within those limitations. You probably knew that, at least internally, but it helps to have it spelled out from an outside source.

You are probably aware that there are lots of resources for NT people, but a woeful lack of help for those like us who really need it. A big part of the problem is that we do not understand social signals and subtleties. Everything has to be clear and unambiguous. The best I (or anyone here) can do is tell you our own experiences. At least you will know you are not alone.

I am totally incapable of approaching a woman socially. When I try (I could work up the courage to do this less than once a year), it's like wading through molasses which gets thicker and deeper the closer I get. Sweat, shakes, tension, hard to breathe. Then, if I can get close enough to talk, I get brain paralysis, and can't say anything. If the woman comes to me it gets much easier, but she still has to show an unambiguous interest. For example, one time at a party a girl came up to me, sat on my lap, and proceeded to try and suck my teeth out. I concluded she was interested, and things went well the rest of the evening. I was on a foreign project at the time and never saw her again.

Thanks for your response, Shamar. I very likely have ASD, and yes, social interactions are difficult for me. I'm not too bad at getting along with people (due to lots of hard work to improve my social skills), but I find dating and romance exceedingly difficult and frustrating. Like I said, I want to improve these skills because I'm tired of getting turned down by women I like or fall in love with. Throughout my life, I've often wished I could avoid falling in love or sexual desire, but until we invent some sort of medication or nanotechnology/neurotechnology capable of targeting very specific neurotransmitters, I know that's not going to happen.

In addition to the resources I mentioned, I would be happy to hear other members personal experiences with dating and romance. I'd likely be able to relate and learn from your experiences far better than resources primarily intended for NT's.

Shamar, I can relate to your difficulty approaching women. I had that same level of anxiety in the past, and I still have a lot of it while going on dates. I also have significant struggles showing any interest in a person (aside from friendship) unless it's very obvious the person likes me. It sounds like it's the same way for you, and I'm sorry to hear you never met that person again. Did you ever get her full name? If so, you might be able to add her on social media or something.

 

[Graphin]

This means you have social limitations, and will have to function within those limitations.

I'd really prefer to call it lack of common talent

 

[Theta.G]

https://ambry.pw/item/detail/id/5a1f04be3a044650f50477b7

 

[tree]

https://ambry.pw/item/detail/id/5a1f04be3a044650f50477b7

I have tried that link 3 times in the past two hours,
but it doesn't connect to anything.

 

[Theta.G]

I have tried that link 3 times in the past two hours,
but it doesn't connect to anything.

Strange... It's the new libgen domain.(library genesis)

book title and author:

Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man - David Clare, Franco Joseph W. South

 

[Judge]

Strange... It's the new libgen domain.(library genesis)

It would seem that any number of ISPs are blocking the libgen domain over unresolved piracy issues of various publications.

Mine blocks it as well. Making the URL a "no-hit".

 

[Mr Allen]

I have tried that link 3 times in the past two hours,
but it doesn't connect to anything.

Works for me, but I'm not in North America·

 

[AloneNotLonely]

There is no secret. No matter how much PUA and psychology books you read you are never going to get the women that are not interested in you. You are either physically attractive to a woman or you are not. You can lose weight, lift weights and wear the right clothes and get the right haircut to increase your chances, but in the end 90% of it is just genetics. Working on your teeth works too (no braces but stuff like myobrace).

The one thing you can change from how you handle things is to stop being scared. The only thing you should be afraid of is getting charged with sexual assault. It's easy to prevent that by not being a predator in the first place and by avoiding crazy feminists. If you don't say outrageous things, chances are you are not going offend anybody while it's guaranteed you are going to be a bore by playing it safe. The advice might be age-old... but be yourself, and I don't mean the house-trained version. Obviously keep incendiary shells such as politics in the back unless you love an explosive ending to the date (I do!). The simple rule is to talk about topics both you and your date would enjoy.

Kissing... eh just do it. I've kissed a few girls that totally didn't like me (Why did they let me? I don't know. I guess they got turned off once they figured out I was a lousy kisser ), and gotten the ole retreat and "What are you doing?!" plenty of times. As long as she isn't crazy it's fine to get rejected for a kiss. When to go to your place? Whenever you want. If you like to go for a roll in the hay after a first date, try to go for that and you'll find girls that are up for it (and girls that aren't are going to run away screaming). If you want to wait 3 months before that... ehhh... you are going to lose a lot of them, but the one that sticks with you is probably more suitable for you anyway.

 

[Anonymoose45]

Thanks for the additional responses. I'll plan on checking that book out. I was able to download it, even though it sounds like the link didn't work for everyone.

Alone, I appreciate your suggestions. I'll keep them in mind.

 

[Tom]

I do understand the issue but personally felt that over analysis was counter productive, though a common Aspie conclusion. Trying to connect romance and 'evidence based science' seems just another sexist methodology. 'How to pick up girls scientifically'. Sex revolves around bodies, but romance/love around feelings. No matter how unapproachable some one might seem they are inside likely just as vulnerable and damaged as everyone else. No one is obligated to like you. Are you even likeable. There are many aspects to this, but one important one is less focus on what you want and being equally concerned with what they need.

 

[Anonymoose45]

Thanks for your response. If you interpreted my message as believing I was asking for scientific methods of picking up women and that I wasn't concerned about what they want, then I didn't explain myself clearly. I don't want to trick someone into liking me, and I'm concerned about their needs and wants. What I meant was I believe there are certain things I would be willing to change if it meant I'd have a better chance of meeting someone that I'm mutually compatible with.

To give a concrete and fairly obvious example, putting more effort into hygiene is something that makes a difference to the vast majority of people. By neglecting hygiene, either gender is decreasing their chances of meeting someone. These are the types of things I mean, although I'm referring to more nuanced factors that I may be less aware of.

I agree that some of the dating books and sources I've read can be extremely sexist and manipulative, but that's not what I'm asking for.

 

[paloftoon]

Since harassment is such a big deal these days, if you don't know, just ask before you start to go in for a kiss. Don't force yourself on a person if they don't want it. But also remember that the same goes for you. If you don't want the other person's attention, let them know too. For flirting, if you're interested in someone, you can definitely mildly flirt to initiate, and if they don't seem to reciprocate, don't push it romantically. Move on and look for someone else.

 

[Anonymoose45]

Since harassment is such a big deal these days, if you don't know, just ask before you start to go in for a kiss. Don't force yourself on a person if they don't want it. But also remember that the same goes for you. If you don't want the other person's attention, let them know too. For flirting, if you're interested in someone, you can definitely mildly flirt to initiate, and if they don't seem to reciprocate, don't push it romantically. Move on and look for someone else.

Yeah, I'm afraid of initiating something the other person doesn't want. I dislike making people nervous or uncomfortable. Are there examples you can think of that you'd consider a mild flirt? If so, that would be quite helpful to me, as I could see from their response whether or not I seem to be making a good impression.

 

[paloftoon]

Mild flirting could be saying things as opposed to doing physical things. For anything physical, if you aren't sure, just ask directly. Like if you don't know if it's okay to hug or kiss someone, ask directly, and try to ask 1-1 or in a smaller group setting or ask to take the person aside.

For saying stuff that isn't too extreme, avoid flirting with topics related to religion, politics, race, and maybe a few others I cannot think of.

If the person you're interacting with flirts with you in a physical manner or on a topic you may consider serious, it is okay for you to either refuse contact or accept it, and if you accept it, you can also know intuitively that you can reciprocate back.

Everything is based on context of course.
Something considered mild flirting might be like you two are talking about something you both like to do. Say you both like to play chess and you both like Austin Power movies. Then, you and the other person are talking about the scene where one of the evil women is licking a bishop piece sexually. Then, right after or when you talk about that movie scene, you can interject that if you partner wanted, you could do a better job than that evil woman on that person's nipple or lips for instance. To play it safe, especially at the beginning, just say you "could" do things leaving it optional for the partner to indicated wanted attention or not, but in a playful way. I think it's better to leave things optional when you flirt, and I think it's sexy to make it optional. Implies you care about the other person. You can also use this as a sign to see if a person might be into you or not depending on their interaction. A person doesn't necessarily need to be flirty to be in to you. It really depends on the person, context, and all people involved getting to know each others quirks, desires, and overall general personalities.

Also, avoid discussing private parts at the beginning unless you know you and your partner are into that. If you want to know something but it is sensitive or you are not 100% sure if it is a sensitive topic to the person or not, but don't want to be rude about something, ask directly and 1-1. Like if you want to know if your partner is interested in you and him/her playing with each others' private parts for instance, ask directly. I think this will help you work with these kind of situations a lot.

Whatever happens in a situation, stay calm too and deal with solving scenarios rather than necessarily trying to be "right" too.

 

[Anonymoose45]

Mild flirting could be saying things as opposed to doing physical things. For anything physical, if you aren't sure, just ask directly. Like if you don't know if it's okay to hug or kiss someone, ask directly, and try to ask 1-1 or in a smaller group setting or ask to take the person aside.

For saying stuff that isn't too extreme, avoid flirting with topics related to religion, politics, race, and maybe a few others I cannot think of.

If the person you're interacting with flirts with you in a physical manner or on a topic you may consider serious, it is okay for you to either refuse contact or accept it, and if you accept it, you can also know intuitively that you can reciprocate back.

Everything is based on context of course.
Something considered mild flirting might be like you two are talking about something you both like to do. Say you both like to play chess and you both like Austin Power movies. Then, you and the other person are talking about the scene where one of the evil women is licking a bishop piece sexually. Then, right after or when you talk about that movie scene, you can interject that if you partner wanted, you could do a better job than that evil woman on that person's nipple or lips for instance. To play it safe, especially at the beginning, just say you "could" do things leaving it optional for the partner to indicated wanted attention or not, but in a playful way. I think it's better to leave things optional when you flirt, and I think it's sexy to make it optional. Implies you care about the other person. You can also use this as a sign to see if a person might be into you or not depending on their interaction. A person doesn't necessarily need to be flirty to be in to you. It really depends on the person, context, and all people involved getting to know each others quirks, desires, and overall general personalities.

Also, avoid discussing private parts at the beginning unless you know you and your partner are into that. If you want to know something but it is sensitive or you are not 100% sure if it is a sensitive topic to the person or not, but don't want to be rude about something, ask directly and 1-1. Like if you want to know if your partner is interested in you and him/her playing with each others' private parts for instance, ask directly. I think this will help you work with these kind of situations a lot.

Whatever happens in a situation, stay calm too and deal with solving scenarios rather than necessarily trying to be "right" too.

Thanks, this response is definitely helpful. As my personality is typically that of airing on the side of caution (I dislike making people unhappy or uncomfortable), I like the idea of starting in ways that are safer and less likely to make the person uncomfortable if they don't reciprocate.