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Curiosity about the life of Saints

Dias

Well-Known Member
Well, one of my interests, is Religion and Theology and there is something that makes me very curious when I read the stories of Saints, whatever their religion may be: the fact that so many of them share common traits with Autism, or is it just coincidences?
For example:
Some of them were great scholars, almost genius, with great memories and capacity for writing in a time where knowledge and books were very limited.
Most of them followed very strict rules of discipline, routine and fasting.
Very restricted interests.
Many of them were hermits choosing to live a life of silence and solitude.
The first case known in history of Anorexia Nervosa is from a female Saint and the history shows us there were many more.
Practises of self punishment used are very similar to what we now call self-harm.
Most of them didn`t look in to peoples eyes, they looked at the floor.
What is your opinion? Of course it is most likely that some had Autism and others don`t but it is interesting for me.
Although I have interest in these areas it is very difficult for me to go into it in depth and explain and express it to others. Would like to hear from you.
I am sorry if I cause disconfort to someone with this topic.
 
I dunno which religion you're mostly interested in but as an Christian I have full sources of the lives of Saints if you're interested. And one note..Christians are not supposed to 'self harm'. Self-harm is a sin just like suicide. Saints did not self-harm, unless you're talking about roman catholics. But if you have read anything about the history of Christianity, you must know that roman catholicism includes a lot of practises that are closer to paganism than Christianity so that is why they have practises such as self-whipping,etc..
Saints would look down out of humility mostly but I don't exclude the possibility of some of them being autistics, this is something we can't know. Saints came in all shapes, colors, and personalities. Any of them could have been autistic but that is something neither they nor the people of their era, could possibly know.

I can tell you an example of a female saint, Maria the Egyptian. Let me know if you wish :)
 
Yes, most of the Saints who practise things like self whipping are Catholic Christians, but the rest of the characteristics are common to the other religions and branches of Christianity .
Of course looking down can be seen as a sign of humility but some cases are really extreme like Saint Charbel whose only time his brother monks saw his eyes was when he died.
I know the story of Saint Mary of Egipt but not much is known about her so I am curious why you have her example?
 
Yes, most of the Saints who practise things like self whipping are Catholic Christians, but the rest of the characteristics are common to the other religions and branches of Christianity .
Of course looking down can be seen as a sign of humility but some cases are really extreme like Saint Charbel whose only time his brother monks saw his eyes was when he died.
I know the story of Saint Mary of Egipt but not much is known about her so I am curious why you have her example?

Oh I just brought her up as an example because you mentioned a female saint with anorexia and thought you might mean her- she had become a living skeleton especially during her last years due to her extreme asceticism. I also admire her a lot but I also admire all the others. Which saint would you like info on? I will share my sources too if you want to look them up yourself or I can translate them to you if they're in Greek :)
 
Are you from Greek descendents? I feel a big connection with Orthodox Christianity and like Saint Nektarios very much. I have the desire to go to Greece one day.
 
roman catholicism includes a lot of practises that are closer to paganism than Christianity so that is why they have practises such as self-whipping,

It's true that Church Christianity is built on paganism, especially Catholicism, although you can't say it's just Catholicism... AFAIK, all Christians celebrate December 25 which is a pagan holiday of the Sun, not the real birth of Jesus (which by the way is a known date)... Most Christians also celebrate St Valentine, in one way or another, which is basically the Dionysus festival of wine and sex... I'm Orthodox, and we just have another random saint to put over the pagan festival...

I don't think self punishing has anything to do with paganism though. It's a common practice with religious people, that have gone just too far. IMO, there are so many other ways to suffer on this planet, that physical self-punishment is not required. However, I get why some people may come to such state of mind, and this doesn't mean they are pagans... Pagan is sacrificing others.

On the topic, if we use more loosely the term "saint" (after all, this is a title that the Church created), you are of course correct. These are people that do not struggle for social skills, approval, status. They were of course highly introverted and sensitive enough to develop deep religious believe. I don't think a normal person can develop such deep believe and devotion to something non-material. There is a thought of Freud - if you ask yourself what is the purpose of your life, you are not healthy human being...

It's not a coincidence, since there is a deep understanding in most religions, that the divine world is separate from the reality, the world of senses. When you become dysfunctional in the reality, this can open your eyes for the divine. In the same way a blind man, can develops his other senses. Of course, this is just a possibility and depends a lot also on external factors, what kind of mental framework was given to you. Although Christianity was corrupted by the Church, at least I believe, it's still a better framework then what we have today...
 
It's true that Church Christianity is built on paganism, especially Catholicism, although you can't say it's just Catholicism... AFAIK, all Christians celebrate December 25 which is a pagan holiday of the Sun, not the real birth of Jesus (which by the way is a known date)... Most Christians also celebrate St Valentine, in one way or another, which is basically the Dionysus festival of wine and sex... I'm Orthodox, and we just have another random saint to put over the pagan festival...

I don't think self punishing has anything to do with paganism though. It's a common practice with religious people, that have gone just too far. IMO, there are so many other ways to suffer on this planet, that physical self-punishment is not required. However, I get why some people may come to such state of mind, and this doesn't mean they are pagans... Pagan is sacrificing others.

On the topic, if we use more loosely the term "saint" (after all, this is a title that the Church created), you are of course correct. These are people that do not struggle for social skills, approval, status. They were of course highly introverted and sensitive enough to develop deep religious believe. I don't think a normal person can develop such deep believe and devotion to something non-material. There is a thought of Freud - if you ask yourself what is the purpose of your life, you are not healthy human being...

It's not a coincidence, since there is a deep understanding in most religions, that the divine world is separate from the reality, the world of senses. When you become dysfunctional in the reality, this can open your eyes for the divine. In the same way a blind man, can develops his other senses. Of course, this is just a possibility and depends a lot also on external factors, what kind of mental framework was given to you. Although Christianity was corrupted by the Church, at least I believe, it's still a better framework then what we have today...


Orthodox Christians do not believe in st. Valentines day, and the saint we have is not random. We have saints that represented the love in a couple (married ofc) but not in that date. I dont know a single Orthodox who would celebrate St. Valentines plus Orthodoxy does not recognize any calendar celebration that isn't approved by the church and doesn't hold a significant spiritual meaning. As for December 25, that is the official date that everyone pretty much conformed to when it became 'official' and from what I know the Orthodox church agreed to have it too so it wouldn't cause confusion among the religious people or those who wanted to join the Orthodox celebrations.
I agree with the rest you mentioned.
 
My idea is not that Christianity was built on Paganism, but that when they were evangelising they used the substitution method to keep people away from praying to false idols by replacing them with Christian festivities or Saints days.
They were clever I think.
 
Are you from Greek descendents? I feel a big connection with Orthodox Christianity and like Saint Nektarios very much. I have the desire to go to Greece one day.

I am Greek yes. St. Nektarios is a very known saint yes, I'm glad you feel a connection :) I hope you can come here whenever you wish and hopefully get to visit a monastery in his name for God's glory :)
 
My idea is not that Christianity was built on Paganism, but that when they were evangelising they used the substitution method to keep people away from praying to false idols by replacing them with Christian festivities or Saints days.
They were clever I think.

Yes I believe the same too, in that view it was definitely a clever action from them.
 
Orthodox Christians do not believe in st. Valentines day, and the saint we have is not random. We have saints that represented the love in a couple (married ofc) but not in that date. I dont know a single Orthodox who would celebrate St. Valentines

Well, if you don't know, it's a sign of intelligence to ask... Note that I didn't say St. Valentines, but just some saint to mask the pagan ritual...

Трифонов день — Википедия

In other Churches, it may be another saint, another holiday. I've not researched that much, I just know it's actually the day of Dionysus, Lupercalia in Rome, and many still celebrate it in one way or another... As a Greek, you tell me how it is in your country, I can find this:

Festivals, Celebrations and Holidays in Greece

  • February 1st is St Tryphon's name day
  • February 14th is the day of Saint Valentina.
Note that the two are the same thing. February 1st is the Gregorian date for February 14th. It's the same thing - St Tryphon, St Valentina, Dionysus, Lupercalia...

You don't know when Jesus was born either, but I'm yet to see a single person that asks and questions, when I provoke him\her. I'm just asking a simple question - if the Jesus birth can be exactly inferred from the Bible, what it makes this "official" authority, which ignores the birth of its own God? I know it's "official", I'm asking why it's official, and what it makes all so called believers, that don't really care when Jesus, their God and savior, was actually born?

Btw, I don't need to agree with me, I'm stating facts, that don't need personal opinions to be true.

"but that when they were evangelising they used the substitution method to keep people away from praying to false idols by replacing them with Christian festivities or Saints days."

Why you are assuming the Church cares about people? Are you really so naive? It's all about power and control, this is just how the real world works. The truth is, there was an original spiritual movement around Jesus, and probably other people like him in the Middle east. The Romans took some parts of it, adopted it, and created Christianity as official religion, killing the original followers as heresy. So we will never know what exactly the original Christianity was, and only can speculate. There is some truth left in in religion Christianity of course, I identify as a Christian, but I question and investigate my fate every day, since I know the fact that really bad people fiddle with it... Think about the Sunday worship, think about the Vatican square. It's in your face who these people are...
 
Well, if you don't know, it's a sign of intelligence to ask... Note that I didn't say St. Valentines, but just some saint to mask the pagan ritual...

Трифонов день — Википедия

In other Churches, it may be another saint, another holiday. I've not researched that much, I just know it's actually the day of Dionysus, Lupercalia in Rome, and many still celebrate it in one way or another... As a Greek, you tell me how it is in your country, I can find this:

Festivals, Celebrations and Holidays in Greece

  • February 1st is St Tryphon's name day
  • February 14th is the day of Saint Valentina.
Note that the two are the same thing. February 1st is the Gregorian date for February 14th. It's the same thing - St Tryphon, St Valentina, Dionysus, Lupercalia...

You don't know when Jesus was born either, but I'm yet to see a single person that asks and questions, when I provoke him\her. I'm just asking a simple question - if the Jesus birth can be exactly inferred from the Bible, what it makes this "official" authority, which ignores the birth of its own God? I know it's "official", I'm asking why it's official, and what it makes all so called believers, that don't really care when Jesus, their God and savior, was actually born?

Btw, I don't need to agree with me, I'm stating facts, that don't need personal opinions to be true.

"but that when they were evangelising they used the substitution method to keep people away from praying to false idols by replacing them with Christian festivities or Saints days."

Why you are assuming the Church cares about people? Are you really so naive? It's all about power and control, this is just how the real world works. The truth is, there was an original spiritual movement around Jesus, and probably other people like him in the Middle east. The Romans took some parts of it, adopted it, and created Christianity as official religion, killing the original followers as heresy. So we will never know what exactly the original Christianity was, and only can speculate. There is some truth left in in religion Christianity of course, I identify as a Christian, but I question and investigate my fate every day, since I know the fact that really bad people fiddle with it... Think about the Sunday worship, think about the Vatican square. It's in your face who these people are...


You know I read your entire comment and I couldn't believe in all the contradictions that you present on it. 1) You are extremely ironic and offensive. Since you talk about 'intelligence' let me give you a tip about another thing that is a sign of intelligence..first of all, when you talk to people you don't know and the only clue you have about them is a minor comment on a forum, it would be in your best interests as a person who deems himself/herself ''intelligent'', to not assume random things you know nothing about, to not be condescending and to not rush into conclusions about things that have never been discussed or even implied by the other person because all the above interim, do a VERY poor job at proving your intelligence.
So before you ask someone to answer to your questions and demand things, you might wanna watch your attitude first. Neither I, nor any other person out there is obliged to answer questions to someone who is so rude to them. Maybe that's the reason why, as you say, nobody answers your questions.I will answer to your comment and that reply I'll give you will also be the last response to you. I don't deal well with condenscending people and I deal even less with people who idiotically assume stuff about me without knowing sh@t about me. I consider that an extremely bad example of 'intelligence' and competency.

2) You said earlier than you're an Orthodox..without knowing much about you but taking info only by your comment, I must say that you appear to be an Orthodox out of tradition..am I right? You keep saying that you identify as an Orthodox Christian but the way you mention it is so cold and distant, it's as if you tell us about your blood type or your ethnicity ''I identify as a 0 blood type/ I'm Brazilian''. Not to mention the way you write about saints ''a random saint''. Orthodox people have mad respect for saints whereas you seem to regard them with indifference, which is also weird.You don't seem to be very in touch with faith and the ''info'' you include and the comment about what we know about Christianity or not, tells me that you have very little info on Christianity because you never really cared to acquire more info about it but instead of admitting that, you want to persuade us all that ''we'' don't have a lot of info about Christianity because somehow you're convinced that the info you have is all that there is out there lol. Or that just because your info isn't very extensive, other people's sources are also not extensive. I highly doubt a person who simply ''identifies'' with something, would care about it enough to go on great lengths to search about it. I care little about the history of kings and queens of Europe so naturally I haven't done a lot of search about it, despite me identifying as a history lover..

And let me inform you that personally as an Orthodox who is extremely interested in the history of Christianity and ofc Orthodoxy, I have a lot of info about both. Same goes for many other Christians out there so please refrain from generalizing and using ''we'' when you talk about yourself. There is an extensive amount of sources both in Greek and in other languages including English, about the history of Christianity, the early Christians (including the info about them having a tradition of glory to saints and holy icons that the west ignores for many centuries and falsely believes that early Christians did not have holy icons), the history of how Orthodoxy begun after the establishment of the first churches by the Apostles, or about how Roman Catholicism persecuted Orthodoxy out of Europe which used to be Orthodox until the first established FrancoRoman popes came up in power, as well as many other sources for also the history of the Orthodox Empire-Byzantium. I don't know what you know about Christianity, but I had the blessing to be given many sources to learn this stuff and I know all I need to know about it and about the Orthodox Church.

3)Now as for the celebraiton of Valentine, the Orthodox alternative is the celebration of the Orthodox couple of st. Priscila and st. Acyla, whose story was a very known example of Orthodox martyrdom and unconditional love between two partners and this is the official and most well known Orthodox celebration of love which is celebrated in the 13th of February. Of course each Orthodox country might also be celebrating local saints or other more known saints whose life might also represent an example of marital love, Orthodoxy has thousands of known saints and martyrs, without counting those less known ones. I find it absolutely understandable that in different regions people might choose to highlight several different saints. Also don't forget that the people who simply identify with something out of tradition, will not care about the faith as much as those who deeply stick to it. ex. in my country there are many people who are 'traditionally' Orthodox but care very little about spirituality and religion. There are also those few who care deeply about faith. The first group will easily recognize and celebrate non-Orthodox stuff like Valentines day or 'international waffle day'. The second will not recognize anything non-Orthodox. Don't forget this very important clue.

4) For the way the Church established the dates of celebrations I will agree with you that the most correct thing to do is to celebrate either the exact date or at least what is considered the one closest to it. But the Church fathers agreed to keep the date of December the 25th for the reasons I mentioned earlier, they wanted to substitute the worship of pagan deities and to encourage former pagans to approach the church and the faith. And yes interim the Church Fathers of Orthodoxy DID care about the people. That is why they dedicated their entire life into how to attract people in the faith for their own salvation, that's why most of them endangered their lives just so people could find the faith and be closer to God, and that's also why most of them did most of what they did for humanity. I don't know what other church leaders in the world cared about but I do know what the Church fathers cared about and why they agreed on that date. I don't doubt that some religion leaders might have had their own gain or profits or tried to exploit some situations but that has nothing to do with why Orthodoxy accepted the 25th of December as the official Christmas celebration. Also, as an Orthodox, I'm sure you realize and know (hopefully), that neither the early Christians nor the modern Orthodox church is fanatized about 'dates'. The Bible itself and the NT also speaks ill for those who are so stuck on dates and typical customs but fail to see the point behind them. We worship the Lord..not his date of birth. His date of birth is important but whether we celebrate it on the 25th of December or June, does NOT change what we worship and what we celebrate..so how about you get your mind unstuck from that route and focus on more important things?

And one last note..I know all about the corruption of the modern churches and the vatincan and so on.

Have a good day!
 
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Hello. Because I started this thread I feel the obligation to say something, but I don't want to make it worse and I am terrible in handling conflicts and debating...
But I would like us to have healthy communication and mutual respect in this thread.
The topic is about Saints and Autism. Maybe we should keep it there.
 
Hello. Because I started this thread I feel the obligation to say something, but I don't want to make it worse and I am terrible in handling conflicts and debating...
But I would like us to have healthy communication and mutual respect in this thread.
The topic is about Saints and Autism. Maybe we should keep it there.

I agree :)
 
But the Church fathers agreed to keep the date of December the 25th for the reasons I mentioned earlier, they wanted to substitute the worship of pagan deities and to encourage former pagans to approach the church and the faith. And yes interim the Church Fathers of Orthodoxy DID care about the people. That is why they dedicated their entire life into how to attract people in the faith for their own salvation, that's why most of them endangered their lives just so people could find the faith and be closer to God, and that's also why most of them did most of what they did for humanity. I don't know what other church leaders in the world cared about but I do know what the Church fathers cared about and why they agreed on that date. I don't doubt that some religion leaders might have had their own gain or profits or tried to exploit some situations but that has nothing to do with why Orthodoxy accepted the 25th of December as the official Christmas celebration.
Actually, the saints were kinda evil because they demonized the pagans and actually somewhat forced them to give up their religions and cultures or else be destroyed. That's why the idea of Christian evangelism sounds evil to me because it's all about destroying other peoples' cultures and religions, wiping them out and destroying said evidence of other religions and cultures, all for the ridiculous, insane idea that Christianity is the best religion and that people need to be "saved" from the end of the world, but only if they love evil deity that Christians follow.

Today, most, if not all, Christian mission trips target poor, 3rd-world countries, where most people have no access to the internet, and everybody is desperate for hope and happiness, and Christianity promises promotes a false sense of hope and happiness.

Christianity shouldn't be allowed to rule. Remember when the Church ruled Europe? Yeah, those were called the Dark Ages, and for good reason. It was a time of bitter conflict, treason, and strife. We shouldn't allow it to rule the world, much less a country.

Disclaimer: I have no problems with normal Christians as long as they mind their own business and aren't constantly trying to convert people.
 
Hello. Because I started this thread I feel the obligation to say something, but I don't want to make it worse and I am terrible in handling conflicts and debating...
But I would like us to have healthy communication and mutual respect in this thread.
The topic is about Saints and Autism. Maybe we should keep it there.
Why bother to comment if all you are going to do is diss everything about Christianity ,the body of Christ is a one body, not an arm floating around ,while the rest of humanity exists somewhere separately! so you wouldn't call your body evil !you do everything to stay alive and not lose a body part.People forget Christians are not!!!!!expected to be perfect when saved ,they change at different rates and calling people evil is very rude .
 
Why bother to comment if all you are going to do is diss everything about Christianity ,the body of Christ is a one body, not an arm floating around ,while the rest of humanity exists somewhere separately! so you wouldn't call your body evil !you do everything to stay alive and not lose a body part.People forget Christians are not!!!!!expected to be perfect when saved ,they change at different rates and calling people evil is very rude .
I'm not calling Christians evil, I'm calling their religion evil. I am sure many Christians have good intentions (I've been raised in a Christian family, can confirm). However, the way they fail to recognize the low-key evil aspects of their religion (such as the obvious promotion of erasing entire cultures in the name of "spreading the word" and "saving people") is what makes their ideologies so truly terrible.

Let me confess to you something: When I was baptized, I heard a woman's voice in my head. She claimed to be the spirit of one of my ancestors, and she said that Christianity is the wrong path for me. Over time, I felt more and more awful about everything. I went into Christianity thinking that it would make me happy, when it only made me feel worse. The spirit was right. I eventually came to a point where I just dropped the religion entirely. There is no use in praising the Christian god when it only makes me depressed.

Trying to be Christian also slowed down me figuring myself out. I don't think I would have figured out that I am pansexual and gender-fluid as quickly as I did if I was still Christian.

Anyways, enough about myself. I am pretty sure there is a verse in 1 Timothy (New Testament, btw), that says that women should stay quite and only do what their husbands say. Sexism sounds pretty evil to me. I don't remember the exact verse, though. There are also multiple instances in the bible where God told the Jews to attack other people because they were in the "promise land" (SURPRISE! Israel belongs to neither the Muslims nor the Jews, it belongs to the Pagans, who rightfully owned the land long before either came and raided it). Either that, or he burned them down himself (Sodom is a prime example), or he threatened to burn them down. There is also very little evidence that God did burn down Sodom. The Hebrews most likely attacked it and destroyed it themselves, and then made propaganda about it saying they were all murderers, cheaters, liars, and gay. Biased writing has existed for centuries, people. You don't think anybody would have killed an entire culture and called that culture evil immediately after killing anybody in it?

I'm not debating religion, just stating my honest opinions and asking questions. That's all I'm doing.
 
REMINDER

Topic of this thread is not to bring up points you believe support whether a thing is good or evil.
To quote OP, the topic is "...the stories of Saints, whatever their religion may be: the fact that so many of them share common traits with Autism, or is it just coincidences?"
 

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