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Covid vaccination? Why or Why not?

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by Yeshuasdaughter, Jun 1, 2021.

What is your position on Covid-19 vaccinations?

  1. I trust the vaccines that are currently available, with fewest reservations.

    17 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. I don't thoroughly trust the above, but it's a gamble that I am willing to take.

    9 vote(s)
    26.5%
  3. I am waiting for a safer, old-school version of the vaccine.

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%
  4. I oppose all vaccines.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I am too afraid of needles to ever consider getting a vaccine.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Vaccines are contraindicated for me.

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  7. Other (Elaborate in post)

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  8. I trust vaccines, generally, but none of the current choices.

    3 vote(s)
    8.8%
  9. Undecided

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
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  1. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝️ V.I.P Member

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    There is a contingent that is pushing for that, but no formal law.
     
  2. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    If it comes to such desperation as public policy, whatever considerations they make about whether or not the vaccine is individually a good choice will probably be cursory at best. Keep in mind government has already waived any liability towards pharmaceutical manufacturers of authorized vaccines.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Magna

    Magna Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I think it's just the latest conspiracy theory. We all know conspiracy theories never end up being true or worthy of giving any credence.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I already posted the link for the law. A Supreme Court precedent since 1905. But it ruled that states retain the right to implement mandatory inoculation- only if they choose.

    Presently it would appear that the consensus of all 50 states is to the contrary. All fine and dandy, but there's still a specter of the federal government overriding it. Or even a scant few governors who are willing to throw reelection chances out the window. Let's just hope that everyone is on the same page in every jurisdiction contrary to precedent. Enough so to avoid any litigation that could end up in the lap of the Supreme Court again.

    Highly unlikely, but to me it's one of those decisions that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, as it does most people. But then the same can be said for other landmark decisions as well. :eek:

    Existing challenges over the years appear to leave such concerns not to reflect a violation of the 14th Amendment. I suspect a majority of existing jurists on the Supreme Court aren't prepared to reverse this. Another classic example of a law on the books that isn't enforced in accordance with modern day conclusions.

    But it might be. o_O

    "ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO, in Jacobson v Massachusetts, the US Supreme Court up
    held the Cambridge, Mass, Board of Health’s authority to require vaccination against smallpox during a smallpox epidemic.2 Jacobson was one of the few Supreme Court cases before 1960 in which a citizen challenged the state’s authority to impose mandatory restrictions on personal liberty for public health purposes."

    Jacobson v Massachusetts: It’s Not Your Great-Great-Grandfather’s Public Health Law
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. Varzar

    Varzar Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I remember this coming up as a discussion point early in the pandemic as well.
    It's true. Mathematically speaking, most of history's pandemics didn't kill a majority of people. The plague being probably the worst at between 4 and 7 out of 10 survival rate. 9/10 would have survived the Spanish Flu. And 98/100 would survive this.

    But mathematics and ethics are certainly two different things.
    I don't know where the ethical line should be drawn.
    Does the ethical line also change if we take into account how our overpopulation is essentially making our planet less habitable? Does our overpopulation make the value of individual lives less than if we were barely surviving?

    And who's job is it to decide these ethical questions? Governments? Most government seems to struggle with ethics.. lol
     
  6. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Our judiciary long ago gave states the right to impose such things if they choose. It's law, so any such discussions of contingencies do not constitute a conspiracy in the legal sense. However such contingency plans likely have consequences for elected officials.

    The kind making it imperative for such discussions to be held in the utmost secrecy. Hard to say who would be the first person to act, but if I had to guess I'd want to be a fly on the wall in Gavin Newsom's office. He may have nothing left to lose depending on how California's gubernatorial recall goes.
     
  7. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yep. It's always the fox who guards the henhouse. :oops:

    Though it is amusing presently to see medical professionals under the scrutiny of government scoff at Pfizer's insistence that a booster shot is needed. Something I'm sure their shareholders agree with as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Varzar

    Varzar Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Ya, I saw your post before on the legal precedent. I was more questioning whether it was something any legislator was actually considering imposing. When I googled, I found articles where Biden was quoted as saying he would not make the forced. But, as you say, state governments could I suppose do their own thing.
    So, I wasn't questioning conspiracy theory on the legal aspect so much as the "is anyone in power actually suggesting this" aspect.

    I can also imagine the protests in the US if any legislator did try to force it would be... intense..
     
  9. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I wouldn't take anyone's word for anything in any scenario that could potentially reflect desperation. Where policy could be dramatically reversed. Even in spite of political consequences. Not to mention unnamed bureaucrats in charge of implementing or exploring contingency plans that may be anything from thoughtful to absurd.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Mary Terry

    Mary Terry Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I'm vaccinated, I wear a mask when I'm around strangers such as grocery stores, I use hand sanitizer which I keep in the car, and I no longer care whether people get vax'd or not. I just assume that they are NOT vax'ed and are breathing their germs on me, and conduct my life accordingly.

    Other people can exercise their freedumbs to their little hearts' content. I've moved on.
     
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  11. Yeshuasdaughter

    Yeshuasdaughter You know, that one lady we met that one time. V.I.P Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Magna

    Magna Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    That's actually an interesting point legitimately worth considering.
     
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  13. Myrtonos

    Myrtonos Well-Known Member

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    Please do not spread anti-vaccination information. For example, don't tell people that [insert number here] people have died of the vaccine simply because that many deaths following the vaccine have been reported. Unfounded claims that dissuade others from taking the vaccine are not okay.
     
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  14. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Even Fox News' Sean Hannity is now encouraging people to get vaccinated.

    The Delta variant has put quite a spin on the whole equation. I guess any ideological incentive for avoiding vaccination is becoming exhausted. But there are still a great many people out there simply fearful over getting vaccinated, regardless of politics or conspiracy theories. And time may be running out for some of them.

    When real global recovery seems fleeting....

    Sean Hannity tells viewers to get COVID-19 vaccines

     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  15. Nitro

    Nitro Admin/Immoral Turpitude Staff Member Admin V.I.P Member

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    “It absolutely makes sense for many Americans to get vaccinated.”
    Many is the key word here, and doesn't specify a percentage.
    He also went on to say that the decision to receive or refuse it was something that should be investigated by you and your doctor after examining each case on an individual basis.
     
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  16. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝️ V.I.P Member

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    Everybody keeps suggesting a "fear" of vaccines.
    How do covid vax numbers compare to routine flu vax numbers?
    If the latter is notably higher, the issue isn't fear. It is trust.
     
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  17. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I see a lot of interviews where infected people interviewed freely admit that they were scared of getting vaccinated. Their words....not mine.

    Trust? There is no trust. Especially in such an abnormally tight window of research and development. Only faith under pressure. But then science is seldom perfect. Neither is pharmaceutical research and development. We know that from decades of products developed have in time come back to haunt us. A process that does not offer guarantees and probably never will. All made worse by a more infectious variant.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    He's right. But you have to wonder just how many people have bothered to really investigate this with their primary physician. I suspect very few, whatever their reasoning may entail. Still it's gratifying to see such personalities downplay the politics at this point in time. The country needs that.

    In my own case I figured it was best to run it past my own doctor given a single concern. Wasn't a problem and I was vaccinated accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  19. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝️ V.I.P Member

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    Agreed. Nobody requires the same for succeeding, annual flu vaccines.

    If their goal is only to maximize vaccination, they should be offering a deactivated vaccine, too, as soon as one is available.

    And those should be quicker to develop, since their delivery system is not new medicine. Only its [payload?] is.
     
  20. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    We don't even know for sure if they have any goals at this point. For some time I've thought the bulk of those addressing the virus were more or less doing so in an improvisational manner. Nothing like R&D of the past.

    The Delta variant seems to be rapidly undoing a great deal of plans and optimism. Forcing both the public and the private sectors to continually improvise. A convergence of huge bureaucracies, policymakers and regulatory agencies who must all sort it out.

    Good luck coming up with a real solution under the circumstances. Worse with the possibility of the virus morphing into other variants. Those holding out for a "Great White Hope" may simply run out of time. Where they will lament that taking the vaccine would have been better than not taking it at all. Yet another thing I witnessed victims in an ICU saying on camera. Very sad.

    Are we closer to the end, or the beginning of this outbreak? I can't tell anymore. Meanwhile some jurisdictions like Las Vegas have infection and mortality rates astronomically higher than in the Metropolitan Reno area. :confused:

    As of this moment, 35 cases of infection daily in Reno. 612 in Las Vegas. Last I saw they estimate only 39% of the state population to be vaccinated. And ranked 36th in the US with the oldest population 65 and over. Though I also don't believe we have an appreciable population of children 12 and under.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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