1. Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Coronavirus and fear mongering.....

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by Major Tom, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Major Tom

    Major Tom Searching for ground control... V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,019
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Karma:
    +5,949
    Big news hit our family as Japan is closing all public schools starting March 2nd for at least one month due to the "coronavirus threat" This is going to effect me greatly, as I will have to watch my son all day until my wife comes home from her job, and then go into my job afterwards. My son has ASD-3, ADHD, and intellectual disabilities and is VERY difficult when stuck at home. Then after I have to go to my job and be a "social butterfly" as a teacher at night. I really don't know how I am going to manage it.

    My question is: why are people freaking out so badly? The regular flu has a higher mortality rate and spreads just as easily as the coronavirus. The flu kills an estimated 56,000 people per year (such a small percentage when compared to the population of the earth 7.53 billion )... The coronavirus has been around for around two months now, there have been 83,387 cases of coronavirus and 2,859 deaths because of it. So if you divide that by two you come up with the number of 1429.5 deaths per month. Now if you multiply that by 12 you get 17,154 projected deaths by coronavirus per year(provided they don't come up with a vaccination). If you divide 56,000 by 17,154 you get 3.2645447126 people dying from the flu compared to every 1 person dying from the coronavirus.

    I think this is some kind of ploy to detract people's attention from something else that is happening and make them fearful and not thinking clearly. I'm pissed off because of how it's going to effect my family and I. It is also taking a huge toll on the world's economy. Fear mongering is one of my most hated things in life and I have a great nose for B.S. This has got me cringing from the smell.

    Wish me luck for the upcoming month ahead, because it is going to surely be one of the most difficult times of my life thus far.

    What do you all think of the coronavirus? Do you think it's fear mongering or a real threat?
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. NothingToSeeHere

    NothingToSeeHere Asexuowl V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,643
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Karma:
    +3,403
    While I get your point here your maths overlooks the fact the covid-19 is only currently present in a few select areas with great effort being put into containment, while the flu is everywhere. If covid-19 was a prevalent as the flu the death toll would be much higher, as the covid-19 mortality rate is ~2% while the normal flu mortality rate is ~0.1% (though it varies a lot for different strains). So your comparison is flawed. A more accurate comparison would be with the 1918 Spanish Flu which was a global disaster, and that is really what all these seemingly ridiculous safety measures are trying to prevent.

    Personally I think that for most people being worried about it is silly and a huge overreaction BUT the actions being taken to prevent it turning into a pandemic which will be a risk to the whole world are necessary. So far the hot spots are in developed countries but just imagine if it were to begin to spread in developing nations or war zones where people don't have easy access to medical care, is would be a disaster. Also even if the death toll was low the economic impact would be great.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Major Tom

    Major Tom Searching for ground control... V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,019
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Karma:
    +5,949
    I do realize that the flu is everywhere, but there are vaccinations for it and it still has a mortality rate of over 3 to 1 compared with the coronavirus. Also, the areas that the coronavirus are hitting, are highly populated areas, so if it was such a big threat there would be a larger death toll, especially since there isn't currently a vaccine for it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  4. NothingToSeeHere

    NothingToSeeHere Asexuowl V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,643
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Karma:
    +3,403
    I'm not sure how else I can explain this... if covid-19 was a global disease like the flu is then the death rate would be much higher than the flu. The outbreak is still comparatively tiny and will hopefully stay so with the current quarantine efforts (though that is looking increasingly unlikely), which is why the death toll is so much less than the flu despite covid-19 having a higher mortality rate (i.e. chance of death if you are infected).

    You can see a graph showing covid-19 infection rate and mortality rate in the context of other diseases here. (Note coronavirus is on the graph as 2019-nCoV)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    6,721
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Karma:
    +14,860
    It is a threat, as it's a nasty and potentially life-threatening illness. It does need to be controled, but I think that at the same time, the mass media have blown it way out of proportion. In this country there is public outcry because they have shut down carnival festivities - including those that take place in places hundreds of miles away from the nearest recorded case. I wonder if there might be an incentive behind it for pharmaceutical companies to sell anti-flu vaccines.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. Major Tom

    Major Tom Searching for ground control... V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,019
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Karma:
    +5,949
    Or 3M is ploying to rule the earth haha. Everyone invest in companies that make masks quickly! :p
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    6,721
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Karma:
    +14,860
    Yeh, masks sold out before the virus even reached the country.

    Here regular seasonal flu has killed 77 people, but this fact seems to be mostly overlooked.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. newbiesomuch

    newbiesomuch New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Karma:
    +10
    My love is freaking out because corona, unlike other type of flu, is dormant for two weeks, allowing one person to give the virus to many people without knowing it. And the number of sick can grow exponentially.

    So, not only fear of pandemic (he's hypochondriac, to boot) but also of getting it without any symptoms and spreading it.
     
  9. Mary Terry

    Mary Terry Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,726
    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Karma:
    +3,075
    Who trusts anything we're told by China? We don't really know the true extent of the disease and resulting deaths in China so I think it is best to take all reasonable precautions until we have more definitive and reliable information. As others said, the death rate from coronavirus is 2% while the death rate from influenza is .1%. Thus, coronavirus is substantially more threatening than seasonal influenza.

    Babysitting your child is going to be challenging. I suggest you stock up on whatever things he likes to play with, movies, music, and other forms of entertainment and distractions. Take him on long walks or other physical activity to wear him out during the day. How does your wife handle him when she babysits?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Nitro

    Nitro Admin/Immoral Turpitude Staff Member Admin V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    10,502
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    Karma:
    +19,194
    It ain't called babysitting when you are the parent ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 2
  11. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,460
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2018
    Karma:
    +3,687
    I'm supposed to be going on a cruise in two weeks. All paid for. One member of our party has already dropped out. My husband and I are elderly and have some chronic conditions. Do I go? Do I stay?

    I really don't want to have to think about this stuff!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  12. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    25,808
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +34,076
    Good question.

    At times it may be difficult to distinguish the fatality potential of airborne pathogens versus 24-hour broadcast news cycles and jittery investors. Too many ways to spread misinformation and fear apart from facts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Raggamuffin

    Raggamuffin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    982
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Karma:
    +2,228
    The reason for fear mongering is the prevalence of modern news. Smartphones, tablets, newspapers and computers. You can't get away from the news unless you actively choose to do so.

    The news will focus on what is considered news worthy. Even though the number of active cases with patients has been declining for the past week, the media will focus on where its spreading to.

    I seem to recall reading that bad news stories do better than positive ones in terms of number of readers. Not sure why. I have actively stopped reading the news for 4 years now, yes it's not 100% avoidable but it is doable.

    When I first started hearing about the virus I went on a non-news based site for statistics that is updated constantly throughout the day. The raw data has no melodramatic tone like news articles do.

    The news stirs up anxiety and other negative emotions and almost always focuses on situations you have no control over. For certain people, these scary articles about often the depths of deprativty and extremes when it comes to human behaviour is genuinely upsetting to read.

    You'd assume the world is going down the toilet if you were to read the news, in reality it's nowhere near as scary as the media make it out to be. Imagine if a newspaper was a person, and every day they only talked about horrible things like murder, war, rape and corruption. Would you give them the time of day? Let alone want to talk to them every day, like people read the news?

    You could argue not reading the news makes you ignorant in some way shape or form. I'd argue the opposite. People take the news as gospel, and yet the news is known to be littered with inaccuracies and embellishments. There's so much good in the world, but the news doesn't care to relay much of this to people.

    Since I stopped reading the news I'm sure I've not been privy to innumerable murders, massacres, celebrity deaths and sexual assaults. And? If it was someone in my immediate circle I'd hear about it - from someone I know. Not a reporter relaying reports from witnesses. No two witness statements will be identical. What you have with the news is a lot of Chinese whispers.Yes, for emergencies the news can be helpful, but this is not such a time for me and where I live.

    I'm less anxious now - it's not a cure, but it's something that helps towards a better stability in myself. The mortality rate for people under the age of 60 or is less less than 1% at the end of the day that's all I needed to hear.

    I think the main thing to remember is this - in the western world, life has never been better than it currently is. Yes, nostalgia might convince you it was better in the past, or the news might convince you the world's about to end - in reality life has never been easier for so many people in the world. But are we grateful? Not really. We're too focused on what isn't working to take stock of just how far humanity has come. It's the 21st century and we're comfier than we ever have been. I guess the news convinces us otherwise by showing us poverty, war torn countries and extremes of human behaviour. It gets you scared, angry and confused. At times like that - just look around you. How much you have, how far you've come. Don't let the bastards drag you down.

    In therapy in the past I was reminded numerous times to not dedicate time, attention and worry to situations out of my control - hence why I stopped reading the news. When I first met my partner I was dumbfounded that she didn't read the news. I assumed it was silly and ignorant to ignore world events. She rightly pointed out, what am I getting out of the news. It was never anything positive.

    Ed
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    3,927
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Karma:
    +10,416
    With flu shots being changed every year to immunize against, what they think will be the worst flu out there, why haven't they come up with one yet specific to this virus? It IS all you see on any media and that part is the fear mongering. Antibiotics do not affect virus' because they are too small - antibiotics are for bacteria. The masks are helpful but not foolproof because they are not form fitting and not filtered. I, personally, would not be at large airports or on a cruise right now. I wouldn't mind so much being quarantined at home. :) And I can see the panic damaging the economy and everything. We can not allow it to put the world at a stand still.

    Sorry to hear how you're being affected - it's not going to be easy. I feel for those couples that have no choice but work the same shift and have to figure out what to do during school hours.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    4,450
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Karma:
    +6,912
    I'm doing decorating with a friend and the radio news is definitely rather sensationalist. I never listen to read or watch news normally, as negatives such as crime are over reported by something like x 15, in terms of their actual significance, plus I believe we need to find effective and useful things to do about social problems, rather than simply gawp at them on telly or chat about them on the radio.

    I hope you cope ok, maybe you could get some help?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    25,808
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +34,076
    Small wonder one can see how such a virus can originate in countries with very high populations concentrated into very small areas. Population density- not race.

    Yeah- simple rule of thumb even in this flu season. Try to avoid most any place where you must inevitably be in close proximity to strangers, if possible. And refrain from touching surfaces of things you don't have to, and to struggle to avoid touching your face with your hands, along with the obvious precautions of washing your hands quite frequently.

    If I even hear someone coughing, I leave in an opposite direction.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. NothingToSeeHere

    NothingToSeeHere Asexuowl V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,643
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Karma:
    +3,403
    Updating a vaccine each year as they do with the flu vaccine is a completely different matter than creating an entirely new vaccine, where they have to not only create an new vaccine but also go through clinical trials.
    Anti-biotics are for bacteria of course, but anti-virals also exist, the only issue is finding one with is effective against covid-19. If I recall correctly one anti-viral has already been approved for use and scientists are working to find more which will be effective.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,407
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Karma:
    +6,110
    Aye, well said. This is how I have learned to view things too. Sorry, the quote thing was freaking out or I'd have done a proper quote, but you get the idea.

    Not to mention the simple fact that even alot of the so called "facts" that are flying around arent quite right.

    For instance, the mortality rate. It is being touted as high. Okay. But.... WHERE is it high? In a bloody hospital setting, where it's being studied? OF COURSE IT'S FREAKING HIGH THERE. Think about it. When you have the flu or whatever, what do you do when it's severe? You go to the hospital. But what do you do when it's NOT severe? Absolutely bloody nothing.

    What does that have to do with it? Simple: It points out twisted data. I'm going to take a wild, craaaaazy guess and say that there are plenty of cases of this virus that havent been spotted not because the person hasnt shown symptoms... but because they HAVE shown symptoms, but those symptoms are mild so the person figures "well it's just the flu" (or perhaps they instead say "bah I can handle it" or "I dont wanna pay those damn doctors") and ignores it, going about their day until the virus wears off and not telling anyone. That's ALOT of data NOT being counted in here, while data of the "grandpa's face just melted off" sort is ALWAYS counted because it's so incredibly easy to notice in the situation they're studying.

    On top of that, there's the other element of "where". Location matters alot with something like this. The danger level can be higher in one country than in another, due to all sorts of factors. Quality of healthcare, available tech, and poverty, for instance. Put the flu virus in a typical suburban area of the US for instance, and everyone is probably fine. Put the same virus, same strain, in a poverty stricken ghetto with lots of homeless or just really poor people, and you have a recipe for danger and disaster.

    On top of that.... what Raggamuffin said is absolutely true. It's a hard lesson I've had to learn over this last year, after having a giant anxiety attack related to some damn stupid thing I heard on the news. At the time, this thing was OMG GLOOM AND DOOM. These months later aaaaaaaand.... I try not to look back on it, lest I feel like a total idiot for ever having fallen for that gibberish. As I've said in the past, the media is not there to inform you. Seriously. A corporation does not exist to please the consumer, no matter what that corporation's stated purpose is. I cannot remember who said this, but it was someone at... Disney, I think, who said something like this: "We are not under any obligation to create 'art'. To make money is our only objective". And this is the case for ALL corporations. And if you know ANYTHING about corporations in a general sense, well.... remember that line from Star Wars? "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy" or something, in relation to that cantina? Yeah. I use that line to describe MOST (all?) corporations pretty often. Sad part? IT IS ACCURATE.

    The news does not exist to inform you. It exists to make money for the controlling corporation, and it's ACTUAL customers: The shareholders. That is it's ONLY goal. Just to give you an idea of how bad it can be, one example I like to bring up is videogames. In that industry, the biggest corporations are so absoultely slimy and shady that they WILL entirely ruin someone's life, usually by exploiting gambling addiction (but there's other ways too), just to make a quick buck. Think about that. They are freaking VIDEO GAME PUBLISHERS. Not CASINO related games, actual video games you'd find at Gamestop. And they still find ways to RUIN people. With videogames! It's supposed to be all fun and games, but they twist even that into something bad just to profit!!! And with all that money behind them, you bet they get away with it... even when they are caught (and they have been caught, and they still do get away with it). OF COURSE the media lies to you, twists the truth, gives you inaccurate stuff. It's not about informing you. It's about getting those sweet, sweet clicks and views, because that's where the money is. I've been telling people for awhile now to STOP following major media, and this is why. It's a lesson that again, I learned the hard way, and with the help of people in my life who are far wiser and more knowledgeable than I am.


    AND. On top of that. With something like this, there's always going to be alot of panic. Right now, the actual precautions for this virus are basically "dont be a damn idiot, do the same things you always do about the flu and be smart and hygenic, and wash your freaking hands, you morons! It's not hard!" Okay, yes, that sounds a little mean, but getting the average idiot to just wash their bloody hands properly is so much tougher than it should be (seriously, watching random people in public bathrooms "wash" their hands makes me want to stab something). But people in a panic dont think like that (well, to be more accurate, they have even less of a chance of thinking like that... many still wont think like that even when not panicking). Instead of thinking "oh, well, I just gotta make sure to do these things and we'll be fine, as long as I'm careful", they think OH NOES there's NOTHING I CAN DO we're all SCREWED, everyone is going to be on fire and the baby will explode!!!

    The whole thing is blowing way out of proportion. WAY out of proportion. Misinformation and scare tactics are EVERYWHERE (again, there are many out there who genuinely profit from this) and people freak out over stuff like this every damn time.

    There's someone I follow who does alot of medical stuff. And he posted something he saw on Twitter, a tag that is something like #AlertNotAnxious. And that sums up the right way to look at it. Well, frankly, it's the right way to look at the flu too. Or any other virus. There's no reason to freak out... even if it hits your area. Instead of flipping out, just be careful, take precautions, and dont hesitate to ask your doctor questions if you should feel the need. Wash your hands PROPERLY (most people dont actually know how to), dont touch your face if you have touched any other bloody object since you last washed, shower well, cover your blasted mouth when you cough (seriously, it's just common decency, nobody wants to stand in your snot storm), drink lots of fluids, rest properly, and so on. THOSE are the things you should be doing. Frankly, you should be doing those things even WITHOUT the damn virus being present! What you SHOULDNT be doing is freaking out.

    You also really shouldnt be trusting media outlets of any sort, but I cant seem to get anyone to stop doing that.


    Ugh, I can tell I havent had my caffeine yet. I'm reading over what I wrote and definitely feeling like I'm not getting some ideas across properly. But you guys are smart, you can figure it out.

    That's all I'm going to say on this one. I've already done this song and dance before, and have pretty much said my part, so I'm not going to stick around for the rest of this. Lots of other things I'd rather talk and type about. I do hope you all have a spectacular and hopefully not too freaking cold day. Go do something fun!
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Aneka

    Aneka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    164
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Karma:
    +295
    Yep it's parenting
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. GrownupGirl

    GrownupGirl Tempermental Artist

    Messages:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Karma:
    +2,550
    What really disgusts me are how racist people are being to anyone who is Asian, even if they're not Chinese and have never even been to China. I'll bet if the first victims during the outbreak were mainly white people, no one would be blaming white people because of it.

    You know what's with humanity? The human part.:rage:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2