Comorbidity between Autism and Borderline Personality Disorder.

[SimplyWandering]

I was wondering if anyone on this site has a comorbid diagnosis of both Autism Spectrum Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and what that looks like or could describe it?

 

[Judge]

"Similar to ASC, BPD patients have elevated autistic traits and a strong drive to systemize, suggesting an overlap between BPD and ASC."

ASC= Autism Spectrum Conditions
BDP= Borderline Personality Disorder

Pay attention to the "Introduction" section that goes into some detail in describing how the two conditions manifest themselves.

The overlap between autistic spectrum conditions and borderline personality disorder

 

[SimplyWandering]

I am aware that there is a study going on, but that doesn't change the fact that someone might have been diagnosed with both and I would like to know what their experiences have been.

Posting a description of it doesn't help, I am asking about individuals who have had that diagnosis. (Could have been a different diagnosis from different doctors.)

 

[pamelaperejil]

I thought that this video had good information, esp. for women. I'm currently trying to decide which of the two I am.

Symptoms of both BPD and Asperger's (esp. in women, according to this video):

black& white thinking
average to above average IQ
obsessiveness
naivety
the feeling that you can't be loved and accepted as your true self
drawn to artistic or helping professions
social exhaustion
burn bridges
difficulty maintaining employment
history of being bullied, teased, or not fitting in
sensitive to conflict
difficulty asserting themselves and asserting boundaries
copies or mimics others to fit in
difficulty interpreting social signals
substance abuse
easily stressed or overwhelmed
withdrawn, crave solitude
sleep issues
feel very deeply
depressed, anxious
problems regulating emotion
too intense
creative
weak sense of self
difference distinguishing between fantasy and reality (paranoia)
perfectionist
low cognitive empathy, high affective empathy

I've heard someone differentiate them by saying: with BPD, the problem is that the person has unstable emotions, though they understand emotion. With Asperger's, the problem is the person doesn't understand emotion, though their emotions are stable. Don't know whether that's true, but I thought it was an interesting description.

I'm currently not diagnosed with either. For several years I assumed I had BPD until someone on another forum directed me here. I gather BPD and Asperger's manifest very similarly in women, who are often more successful in "masking" their autistic traits than men. The internet tests I've taken say I have a mix of neurotypical and autistic traits (mainly involving mind blindness and social problems, not so much the sensory stuff).

A question to ask yourself might be: when did you start having symptoms? Typically, the "age of onset" is later for BPD. If you have both, it may be very difficult to get a correct diagnosis. Also, I think self harm, self destructive behavior, and intense feelings of emptiness are more common with BPD. Frantic efforts to avoid abandonment. Intense feelings of shame and unworthiness, though that could also come about from the "masking" involved in autism. From what I can tell, comorbidity is low but women are often misdiagnosed as one when they're really the other.

 

[OkRad]

I am not sure how the two could be confused.

 

[kbb0]

*Trigger warning for non explicit mentions of self harm, suicide, sexual trauma and eating disorder and detailed descriptions of Borderline Personality Disorder. Please do not read this if you think it will trigger you*

I have both. I am currently on medication for BPD that makes me functional, healthy, and makes almost all of my symptoms almost non existent, although because of the side effects and me building up a tolerance to it I am trying a new one in the same class (atypical antipsychotic). Also I do therapy.
(BTW this is not an advertisement for medication. I personally need it, but I do not think everybody does. I think medication should be a last resort.)

When I am unmedicated however, I feel too much. My mood is extremely unstable. My emotions are unbearable, and even when I am having fun there is a part of me that is wondering when it will be ripped out from under me. Any little perceived slight against me could send me down a spiral until someone else pulls me out of it or I get distracted by something that makes me feel really good. My mood swings can last anywhere from minutes to hours. If I have to cry I cannot stop myself (when I am medicated it is very easy not to cry) and it happens at least once a day. I cannot talk myself down from the edge while I am there. I was suicidal, I was hurting myself, I developed an eating disorder, I hated myself for being out of control. I hated myself for hurting the people who loved me and pushing them away and at the same time would feel anger towards them so strongly that it felt like hatred.

However not all BPD is this extreme (and some is worse). Mine is because of sexual trauma that happened while I was still in diapers, and it messed up my brain chemistry at an extremely early age where brain development is critical. Also I am most certainly not saying that people who have experienced sexual trauma or abuse later in life have it better. All sexual abuse is disgusting and wrong and no one should have to know what it feels like.

While autism can cause distress because of the outside world not lining up in a way that is comfortable with our senses or because of pain and self esteem that stems from other people being abusive or bullies, the discomfort and pain are not internally generated. Borderline Personality Disorder is internal and there is going to be significant pain from the inside. If it weren't for neurotypical people treating me like crap a lot of the time I wouldn't experience any pain from my autism (though I do not have sensory sensitivities like many NDs do so I can't speak to that).

Also just a little weird fact about my personal experience with the two. Sometimes I have a hard time empathizing with people whose experiences I don't share unless I try extremely hard to get in their head and imagine what they are feeling. But when I do empathize with someone (either because I've tried very hard or because I already share their experience) I feel it very strongly and may start crying. (I simply can't listen to Praying by Kesha)

Sorry if this is too much information. I always feel like people will think I am crazy when I open up about this stuff, when all I need is a little help to be healthy. BPD is definitely one of the more disliked mental health issues a person can have.

 

[OkRad]

*Trigger warning for non explicit mentions of self harm, suicide, sexual trauma and eating disorder and detailed descriptions of Borderline Personality Disorder. Please do not read this if you think it will trigger you*

I have both. I am currently on medication for BPD that makes me functional, healthy, and makes almost all of my symptoms almost non existent, although because of the side effects and me building up a tolerance to it I am trying a new one in the same class (atypical antipsychotic). Also I do therapy.
(BTW this is not an advertisement for medication. I personally need it, but I do not think everybody does. I think medication should be a last resort.)

When I am unmedicated however, I feel too much. My mood is extremely unstable. My emotions are unbearable, and even when I am having fun there is a part of me that is wondering when it will be ripped out from under me. Any little perceived slight against me could send me down a spiral until someone else pulls me out of it or I get distracted by something that makes me feel really good. My mood swings can last anywhere from minutes to hours. If I have to cry I cannot stop myself (when I am medicated it is very easy not to cry) and it happens at least once a day. I cannot talk myself down from the edge while I am there. I was suicidal, I was hurting myself, I developed an eating disorder, I hated myself for being out of control. I hated myself for hurting the people who loved me and pushing them away and at the same time would feel anger towards them so strongly that it felt like hatred.

However not all BPD is this extreme (and some is worse). Mine is because of sexual trauma that happened while I was still in diapers, and it messed up my brain chemistry at an extremely early age where brain development is critical. Also I am most certainly not saying that people who have experienced sexual trauma or abuse later in life have it better. All sexual abuse is disgusting and wrong and no one should have to know what it feels like.

While autism can cause distress because of the outside world not lining up in a way that is comfortable with our senses or because of pain and self esteem that stems from other people being abusive or bullies, the discomfort and pain are not internally generated. Borderline Personality Disorder is internal and there is going to be significant pain from the inside. If it weren't for neurotypical people treating me like crap a lot of the time I wouldn't experience any pain from my autism (though I do not have sensory sensitivities like many NDs do so I can't speak to that).

Also just a little weird fact about my personal experience with the two. Sometimes I have a hard time empathizing with people whose experiences I don't share unless I try extremely hard to get in their head and imagine what they are feeling. But when I do empathize with someone (either because I've tried very hard or because I already share their experience) I feel it very strongly and may start crying. (I simply can't listen to Praying by Kesha)

Sorry if this is too much information. I always feel like people will think I am crazy when I open up about this stuff, when all I need is a little help to be healthy. BPD is definitely one of the more disliked mental health issues a person can have.

It's not too much info at all and I appreciate your clarifying this. Do you mind if I ask how they can tell the PTSD from the BPD? I have PTSD but not BPD. PTSD can get very strong, but maybe it's the wider range of emotional intensity that BPD gets that PTSD does not? Also, how does it work with the rigidity of ASD and the instability of BPD? Is one more prominent on some days and others on another day?

I am very sorry about what happened to you and I hope that person went to jail and is still there. Makes me mad.

 

[kbb0]

It's not too much info at all and I appreciate your clarifying this. Do you mind if I ask how they can tell the PTSD from the BPD? I have PTSD but not BPD. PTSD can get very strong, but maybe it's the wider range of emotional intensity that BPD gets that PTSD does not? Also, how does it work with the rigidity of ASD and the instability of BPD? Is one more prominent on some days and others on another day?

I am very sorry about what happened to you and I hope that person went to jail and is still there. Makes me mad.

I'm sorry I don't think I'm qualified to answer the question about PTSD. There can definitely be some overlap since BPD is almost always caused by trauma/abuse. But yes BPD always comes with difficulties in emotion regulation and being more sensitive than is comfortable. Other than that I would not know.

And my rigidity with autism has personally been a little less so because I am very gullible and go along with what people are saying very easily if they are able to make it sound like it makes sense. It is in fact more so my gullibility mixing with the instability that has often made me more susceptible to being taken advantage of and being misdiagnosed several times in many aspects of my life. This may not be everyone's experience though as some people with autism are more rigid than I am. Also my very low emotional awareness from my aspergers has made it extremely difficult navigating mental health issues, especially ones that are less common and therefore less understood and often the last considerations. Also my difficulties standing up for myself in terms of being coherent and knowing what to say have made it more difficult. Self advocacy is unfortunately often required in mental health.

And thank you for your kind words. He is not, but I at least take comfort knowing he does not have access to children and teens anymore. If he did I would encourage the other people he'd hurt to come forward, as my experiences cannot be proven.

 

[OrdinaryCitizen]

Just a hypothesis BPD its been around for a while since we lived in caves...
Treatment was a pretty simple and effective as well, consisted of letter object worn around waist of parent applied to patient behind couple times for long lasting effect.
Today children who show symptoms of this "disorder" are kissed on their behind and shown to doctors to talk about how special they are, just reinforcing their symptoms. Then we hear in the news a boy/girl killed their family over a gaming console or iPhone.
Could be wrong here so don't judge hard i been told i am bipolar myself.

I hated myself for being out of control. I hated myself for hurting the people who loved me and pushing them away and at the same time would feel anger towards them so strongly that it felt like hatred.

I had this too when i was child and i stopped because i realized how bad this was. Never had it since or suppressed this feelings.

 

[AuBurney Tuckerson]

I have everything she just described, including gas... *farts* *burps*

 

[AuBurney Tuckerson]

Maybe I'm an alien?

 

[OrdinaryCitizen]

I have everything she just described, including gas... *farts* *burps*

This could be side effect of anxiety, you might be simply used to swallowing air when nervous thus burps and gas.

 

[AuBurney Tuckerson]

This could be side effect of anxiety, you might be simply used to swallowing air when nervous thus burps and gas.

Actually, I'm always having gas.. But I get it from my mother who has trapped has worse than I do, and I probably have it cause she was pregnant with me when she had it. Plus, I have a lot of sinus, and I'm always closed up, even by the way I talk. I'm taking prescription nasal sprays right now. Idk if I am still swallowing air, even when being closed up most of the time..

 

[OrdinaryCitizen]

Air usually being swallowed trough the mouth, at least in my case.
It can happen randomly when you just sit and do nothing and also when eating.

Gas can be caused by the stuff you eat so it might be two distinct reasons working against you at the same time.

 

[AuBurney Tuckerson]

Oh ok. *fart*