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Being childish is always bad?

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by harrietjansson, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson New Member

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    As an aspie I like to zoom in on different details and look at them. Right now I am learning Italian and I couod say Souno piano (I play piano) but say Souni piano (you play piano). This is very practical but also very grammatical.
    Most books or videos make everyrhing very practical without grammar or too grammatical.
    I need the middle way.
    Is this the aspie way of being practiical?
    What are your thoights?
    The middle way is the childlike way. Children learn by details and not by repeating sentences or too much hrammar studying.
    Aspies are said to be very childish but we can use our childishness for something good.
    What do you say?
     
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  2. Baeraad

    Baeraad Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite understand what you're asking, but... anch'io sto imparando italiano! Mi piace molto, รจ una lingua bellissima. Come sta andando per te? :)

    As for learning languages, I think my strategy is to try to learn enough words and grammar that I can start reading Italian novels and watch Italian television shows, and after that I plan to just do that and try to internalise the way the language is actually used. Does that work as a middle way?
     
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  3. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

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    I don't know about dance classes, but where learning languages is concerned you need to try different methods and see which one suits you best. Personally I find that I need both, I need to learn and understand the grammar and theory as well as practise. Practice and revision are necessary for long term memorising of vocabulary, but also we pick up languages through pattern recognition and one needs to expose oneself to the language in order to pick up on the patterns, or to reinforce the pattterns or grammar rules. I am experienced with language learning and find it easy to pick up on the patterns and grammar rules without formal teaching or study, but really, a combination of both is more effective. After you learn one language, it becomes a lot easier to learn the next. I also make notes, because that helps me to memorise vocabulary.

    On being childish, all creatures including human beings play; it is a basic need and instinct. By playing we relax and also can learn new skills or experience. An adult is just a big child :) It is wrong that society frowns on certain activities as being 'childish' in adults, really there is no such thing as 'childish' - to supress this basic instinct may even do harm, and cause people to have stress and mental health problems in the long run.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
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  4. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson New Member

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    I find that in languages you often have two options: just learn the sentences at once. They call it the practical way.
    Or you learn by studying much grammar. They call it theoretical way.
    Both sucks!
    In order to learn sentences you need to know how souno/souni works but in order to learn the grammar you need to build up sentences and hear a lot of Italian sentences.
    There should be a middle way.
    People do not respect that some of us need this middle way which is called learning tye childish way. I can never go to a Latin class as I would be forced to study too much grammar. I would not enjoy an Italian class as they probably don't let me study the grammar of the sentences. They would probably just throw sentences at me. Rote learning. People who use such methods seldom learn how to make up their own sentences. In Latin classes people never learn to speak at all. They just learn too much theory. Not many people teach using the childish way. There is a reason why Aspies don't like modern education.
    I am not to good at Italian.
    I just know the basics like: Suono organo del canne (I hope that is correct) or Come al solito.

    Where do I find the "childish education"?
     
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  5. Baeraad

    Baeraad Well-Known Member

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    Those are two phrases I don't know, for what it's worth. Or at least, I wouldn't know what "suono organo" meant if you hadn't said it, and I still don't know "canne." I'm guessing "come al solito" means "as usual," but that's from parsing the individual words - I don't think I know it as a phrase.

    Well, I'm taking a course on this site: Learn Spanish, French or Other Languages Online - Babbel.com I don't know if it's what you're looking for, but it does teach you sentences/phrases and rules of grammar sort of side by side. Does that count?
     
  6. harrietjansson

    harrietjansson New Member

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    It means I play pipe organ and Like always. This is a pretty good answer to How are you. The only Italian I meet is my organ and singing teacher.
    But we use Swedish. I only try some new things I learned with him. Where do you find a person with whom you can speak simple Italian?
     
  7. Baeraad

    Baeraad Well-Known Member

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    I've got an Italian friend, which is a large part of the reason why I'm learning it in the first place, so she spends some time setting me straight. :) Not sure how to meet Italians on purpose, though. I suppose that as far as writing goes, it might be possible to find some online? Go to some Italian-speaking site and try to join in on the discussion - though that's probably best done after you've learned enough to have a conversation, I admit.
     
  8. onlything

    onlything Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Being childish (immature)? Yes, it's quite bad. Child-like? Not necessarily. I would say don't care about how you're supposed to learn something - learn it in the way that is most efficient for you. There's nothing childish in that.
     
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  9. onlything

    onlything Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Why not trying to use a forum or website created for the sole purpose of getting to know people from all around the world? Something like PenPal World for example. There are quite a few available, some working like chats, other like 'letters from a bottle' connecting to random people. I can't say I used any in the last few years but I have seen or heard about many. May be worth a try. You could find an Italian trying to learn English or just kind enough to help you.
     
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  10. Peter Morrison

    Peter Morrison Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I adore languages. I tend to want to have a firm grasp that what I am saying is correct, so I need to be introduced to all options with word form and grammatical structure before I can use the language. The pieces and parts make no sense to me if I don't know what they do and where they come from. The ALM phrases are a good start as long as I also understand how to manipulate the phrase to accommodate changes. Studying German helped me a lot with English grammar. You must grasp nominative, genitive, dative, and accusative cases to speak properly. I never understood the concept of indirect objects and direct objects in junior high school. I had to study a foreign language to learn my own. For the longest time, I kept a memorized chart of all the possible adjective endings, as well as the related definite and indefinite articles, in my head. To me, this is pure Aspergers. The rest of it is play and practice. I had most of my practical use of German in Vienna. I would stop along the street and read every advertisement and every public notice aloud. It was good reading and pronunciation practice, but it also helped me develop vocabulary.

    To me, Italian is a beautiful language with a lot of wonderful flowing words. The distribution of vowels sounds lends itself to emotional expression. It seems easy to elongate words, making it perfect for opera. When I hear Italian, I feel as if I am clearly hearing the emotion behind the message, though I have no idea what is being said. I love the way they say "okay" like a 3-syllable word. It's prettier.
     
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  11. Aspychata

    Aspychata My Art Work

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    I am horrible at languages. l am totally guilty of comprising French and Spanish together. But l did limp by in Mexico on one worded sentences. Si, pollo, si. Solemente. Translation l believe is yes, chicken. Alone. Like no rice so l came up with my ala carte request. England was easy to travel in except l got in trouble for talking to gypsies. l was told they were gypsies, me thinking, so the point is? l never saw any in Cali, l had no idea what we were discussing. It's best to travel with locals. Hope l haven't offended any gypsies here. l have had people ask my daughter if we have that bloodline. I think she does extremely accurate tarot card readings.

    l relish the kid in all of us. Sometimes you just have to let loose and laugh. Just be a idiot for 1 min. unless that's just being on the spectrum? l specialize in saying totally silly stuff with a totally straight face which gets my residents laughing where l work. And some laugh so hard, it really makes my day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  12. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

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    It doesn't have to be like that - there is a new Latin course on Duolingo, where one can learn sentences, phrases and vocabulary supported by grammer notes that one can choose to ignore if one doesn't like to study grammar. One hears the sentences, speaks them, translates them and writes them, so a wide range of skills are tested. It only goes up to about A1 level though, so if you wanted to learn the language in depth you would need to do more further study.