1. Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Featured Autistic people are difficult for non-autistic people to read

Discussion in 'Autism Spectrum News, Events and Research' started by Mia, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Mia

    Mia Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    6,625
    Joined:
    May 27, 2015
    Karma:
    +16,158
    In summary, the evidence suggests autistic people are less readable than non-autistic people (Edey et al. 2016; Sheppard et al. 2016), that autistic people are perceived less favorably than non-autistic people (Sasson et al. 2017) and that when perceivers find it difficult to read targets, they also tend to perceive those targets as unlikeable (Anders et al. 2016). This evidence leads us to question whether there is an association between autistic people being difficult to read and autistic people being perceived unfavorably by non-autistic others.

    Is There a Link Between Autistic People Being Perceived Unfavorably and Having a Mind That Is Difficult to Read?

    So, is that why autistic people are thought of less favorably? Because we are not overt, as expressive, or that we are less emotional?
     
    • Informative Informative x 7
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    24,129
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +30,934
    Stands to reason.

    Falls right into something I've been posting for years here.

    That it isn't that we particularly lack empathy, but rather that Neurotypicals are unable to sense we have it just because we don't physically project it in a way that they understand and are socially accustomed to.
     
    • Agree Agree x 15
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,206
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2018
    Karma:
    +3,042
    In thinking back over our bad experiences with NTs, we should remember that they may have been trying but just couldn't figure us out. Teachers and parents may have meant well but been dealing with incomplete information.

    I wish more people in the autism community would practice forgiveness. It would be good for them and build bridges to the NTs of the world.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  4. shysnail

    shysnail Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    May 14, 2019
    Karma:
    +570
    The burden is on autistic people to adapt and learn to communicate with NT people effectively, never the other way around. It's frustrating.
     
    • Agree Agree x 14
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Joshua Aaron

    Joshua Aaron Autistic Bisexual

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2018
    Karma:
    +1,299
    I wish allistics would recognize that we don't have a lack of empathy, but just difficulty showing empathy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. Tom

    Tom Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    5,427
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    Karma:
    +12,464
    If they knew what I was thinking they would probably like me even less.
     
    • Funny Funny x 14
    • Agree Agree x 6
  7. Peter Morrison

    Peter Morrison Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    603
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Karma:
    +1,847
    I think the traditional signs of "paying attention" and the truth test of looking people in the eye are lacking in ASD. So, Mia, I agree with this completely. We don't fit the mold, so we can appear sketchy. There is something "off" in our behavior that can make some people very uncomfortable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Gracey

    Gracey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,266
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Karma:
    +6,055
    Ironic in a sense.

    Appears to be similar on both sides.
    (autistic/non autistic)

    May be perceived unfavourably through lack of understanding.

    One of my first thoughts on reading the study was if the tables were turned?
    Is there a link between non autistic people being perceived unfavourably and having a way of being that's difficult to read?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  9. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,206
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2018
    Karma:
    +3,042
    Once you know about this, though, the signs of "paying attention" are very easy to mimic. The problem for many autistics is that they don't even realize they are hard to read.

    I know there are those who say there is a large burden involved in masking, and I'm not saying mask to look like an NT. That approach for an autistic is very demanding, over time. The problem is, the autistic thinks they have to actually BE paying attention, when they nod, say "uh huh," focus on the bridge of the person's nose, etc. I'm not at all convinced that NTs really ARE paying attention while they demonstrate the signs of paying attention. You can go "uh huh" at breaks in conversation, without actually hearing the other person's content! And I'm convinced that's what a lot of NTs do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,702
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Karma:
    +2,679
    Why would you pay attention to a lot of what is said, given that it is pointless drivel? Or am I missing something?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Gracey

    Gracey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,266
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Karma:
    +6,055
    again, that can work both ways.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    6,257
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Karma:
    +12,791
    What?

    There is more than one way?

    OMG

    I need to sit down.
     
    • Funny Funny x 6
  13. WildCat

    WildCat and his scatterbrain V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Karma:
    +1,665
    It's not rocket science - maybe take the time to get to know people and build understanding rather than "read" them and stick with your first impression, but what do I know? I doubt the people in this study weren't given the time to do so and can't say how much of them really care, so no surprise really.

    I think those on the spectrum should start practicing their people reading skills as it has many benefits. It'll take a lot trial and error at first, but it's worth it in the end.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,206
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2018
    Karma:
    +3,042
    Good point!!! Just practice the "signs of paying attention" but only pay attention maybe 1/2 the time, which vastly decreases the cognitive load. Just listen for pauses in conversation, etc.

    Of course, this teaches you to be neurotypical, which may not be that desirable!
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Gracey

    Gracey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,266
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Karma:
    +6,055
    the paying attention to drivel.

    an example,

    someone asked me how I was getting along changing my garden around.

    I answered enthusiastically (the long answer) :)
    but,
    before I could finish mentioning the most efficient way of getting any surface water (heavy rain) to run off the patio in the desired direction,

    I was interrupted by them firstly;
    telling me about the oilcloth table covering one of their friends had bought cheaply,
    and secondly,
    their (same) friend's hip replacement and subsequent recovery.

    it can work both ways,
    my garden answer was drivel enough for them to interrupt and chat drivel about someone I've never met.

    neither of us riveted by either conversation. not really paying attention.
    exchanging information and passing the time of day I guess.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Juliettaa

    Juliettaa Black Sheep. Society of One. V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    678
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Karma:
    +1,737


    Have you 'trained yourself' to engage in that kind of exchange or does it come naturally?

    To avoid that kind of thing, I 'done away' with the front garden as I found too many people (mainly people walking their dog) wanted to talk to me when all I wanted to do was tidy up the garden and enjoy the task in hand. I used to find it so confusing why anyone would ever proceed beyond 'good morning' or 'good afternoon'.

    Listening to haemorrhoid woes or what to have for dinner from a stranger - so tiring.

    Unfortunately, I have one of those faces that seems to attract people into telling me things that I really don't want to know :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. SixTimesNine

    SixTimesNine New Member

    Messages:
    26
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2019
    Karma:
    +44
    The problem I come across is that many of the people who criticize my aloofness as "rude" have no empathy. My mother-in-law was a particularly extreme example of this. She was convinced I was the rudest person on Earth because I did not engage in coversations that had nothing to do with me (relatives I never met, for example) or was not able to participate in because she kept cutting me off. She criticized me as rude when I asked about my nephew/her grandson because I should have asked about HER. You know, its not like grandparents are known for liking to talk about their grandkids or anything. She even got upset once because I could not explain why I don't like seafood. That sort of like asking why someone is sexually attracted to men or to women--I don't CHOOSE to dislike seafood, I choose to avoid seafood because I just don't like it!

    To get back to the empathy--After several years of her talking behind my back about how rude I was, it finally blew up. I tried to rationally explain to her some of the problems I had growing up that made me shy and not that talkative. For example, an incredible amount of bullying in school. Also there was the influence of my televangelist watching grandmother that limited my ability to have friends and prevented me from dating until I was 20. My mother-in-law's response? "I don't want to hear any of that crap."

    In terms of rude, I remember going up to waiters/waitresses several times and apologizing for how she treated them. She also talked trash about all of her "friends." She felt betrayed that they cut off communication after her husband died, but her husband was the only reason why they put up with her in the first place.

    Her conception of respect was that it was a one-way street. If she showed any respect for anyone else, it took away the respect that she deserved. There was no way in her mind that anyone whom she treated with respect could possibly respect her.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 4
  18. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    6,257
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Karma:
    +12,791
    Remind me not to ask :)

    (Also remind me not to type this if you're in a bad mood. I'm hiding just in case)
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  19. BlueSky Aozora

    BlueSky Aozora Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    271
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Karma:
    +296
    That's true when an autistic person goes into the society, but not necessarily true in case of marriage or among family members.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. BlueSky Aozora

    BlueSky Aozora Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    271
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Karma:
    +296
    I don't know if this is related or not, but "difficult to read" in some situations might relate to "walking on eggshells".

    What I mean is, let's say I'm speaking to another autistic person: I express my opinion about something, that might be different from his/her. Suddenly it turns into arguments and he/she is angry.

    Probably he/she doesn't like argumentative conversation, or I might just said something which triggered him/her without I'm knowing it, or something else. How could I know whether I will accidentally trigger him/her, when I was just trying to connect and only said something that is supposedly harmless? Hence, the "difficult to read".

    (This could also be vice versa: someone said something innocent, but I feel triggered).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1