Aspergers, intentional monogamy and the complete inability to understand when flirting is happening

[huckleberry3501]

Hey all,
I'm struggling with a particular experience resulting from the fact that I struggle to read social cues. My lack of perception here has led to a lot of really embarrassing situations, but most acutely it seems to come up a lot around the expression of romantic interest, or flirting. I have a monogamous partner and I'm beyond happy in and grateful for our relationship; but we circulate in a world with a lot of single folks our age, and she's helped me understand the extent to which I'm oftentimes being flirted with by friends/coworkers/etc. I think people in our particular community just have a lot of energy in that way, and apparently it's a very regularized occurrence, though one that slips below my radar.

It's not that I can't comprehend the idea of what flirting *is,* or even memorize the signs of how to identify it; or even that I don't sometimes catch it and understand it. It's just that no matter how much I work on that awareness, it's still ALWAYS catching me off guard, and blindsiding me - like every time it happens (and my partner very patiently helps me identify when it does) its brand new to me, and I never see it coming, or perceive that it's happening as it happens - she still always has to fill me in on it later, and sort of explain it to me.

I feel pretty bad about this - it's obviously a lot of energy for my partner to hold, and though I can't speak for her exactly about the experience, I'll try to frame some of the difficulties I understand it as bringing to her end of the relationship. (For the record, she's truly a saint.)

It's not that I have interest in other persons, that I'm intentionally flirting back, or that she feels like she can't trust me. And she's not at all a jealous partner or person. But it's a lot of work on her end, both to watch this unfold, or to know it is happening, to understand that I don't perceive it, and even and on top of that, to basically have to walk me through it each time so that I can then know to show her the emotional support I would absolutely want to give in response (like signaling my closeness to her when it is happening, so that people know I'm not open to them).

What's more, the fact that I can't really read this as happening means that, thought I'm not exactly there to receive the flirtations, I'm not understanding what's happening enough to reject them either. My partner has to kind of hold this fear that I won't perceive when I'm crossing into territory that a more neurotypical partner might recognize as intimate or discrete - she's expressed oftentimes the fear that many of these individuals may feel they hold a special, under-the-table connection with me - and that even though she knows that I'm not present for that, it's like she sort of sees me negotiating a world where others are free to read their own understanding of their relationship with me unto a kind of blank slate.

It's also frustrating, because it oftentimes results in a relational dynamic with others in which they feel like they have a kind of open access to connection with me, and she's sort of expressed the idea that it's hard because it can feel to her like others perceive that they're much closer to me and, implicitly, to our relationship than they are - even to the point where they can kind of act like they're "sharing" me with her, very openly, if that makes sense? Like that it should be a point of connection, even between them and her, that they can talk about and share together.

I hope that doesn't all sound too strange. I don't think there's a particular question for in in all of this that I'm trying to crowdsource - though any advice is always totally welcome. I'm new to negotiating my identification with Aspergers, and I'm working through it with my therapist, my friends and my partner - so any wisdom helps and is welcome. But I would definitely also love to hear other people's experience around these issues, to learn more about how other couples have negotiated these kinds of tensions, how it might feel to be the neurotypical partner in this situation, and what I might do to be a better partner through it.

I feel fairly confused - I think because of my inability to read these cues, I've never before considered the possibility of being flirted with - but now, because I'm close to a partner who knows me well enough to articulate these occurrences for me, there's this whole new world of subtext, and suddenly negotiating that world or reality is like a huge part of my experience - but it's a part of my experience that I'm not actually experiencing. But it's still something I am experiencing, in contour. I don't really have a lot of tools for doing this - or even for recognizing the occurrence. I feel pretty sorry that she holds so much weight for the both of us here, though she does so very gracefully.

 

[Raggamuffin]

It can be a struggle to work out if someone is just being nice, or flirting. I think when someone is being persitent, or bringing up compliments out of the blue, when the conversations have nothing to do with what they're saying. Eye contact is another, in fact eye contact took me a hell of a lot of practice recently to get better at. Now that I'm looking at people more, I'm starting to see patterns and behaviours which would indicate when someone likes me.

Perhaps your assumption that this flirting is blindsiding you is compounding the problem. From what you're describing, there is plenty of self-awareness here. With an assumption there is social ineptitude or clumsiness, you could be preventing progress.

I'm currently living with my ex whilst we sell our house. Sometimes after social events she'll critique me and point out times I made people awkward, or went so far off topic that I was making people uncomfortable. But I've been telling her recently "that's just who I am".

Truth be told, if you're in a long term relationship, and happy - whether or not people flirt should be 'by the by'. It's interesting how you mention others reading a special connection with you. Over the years I've met a lot of people who ended up confessing their attraction to me. I felt it sort of spoilt our friendship, especially as I had no interest in these people when they told me.

Maybe it seems obtuse - but isn't other people's awkwardness their problem? I say something off topic, or out of the blue, or I'm just my usual blunt and over opinionated self - someone disagrees or gets upset. Should I apologise for being myself?

Me and some friends have a Discord group for UK gamers, and there's a few on there who will vent and get triggered over little things. There's a straight talking Irish guy on our channel and he has the best retort "that sounds like a 'you' problem"

I personally think this speaks volumes, especially in this ever more 'woke' cancel culture we live in. Someone says something, and if another disagrees, and is angry and vocal enough - it can start a following. But you know what, masking all the time to try and Fawn others, prevent friction, or just pretend to be normal is exhausting.

Why should we constnatly have to try and alter our behaviours in order to fit in? The happier I feel in myself, and the closer I am with friends - the more unapologetically insane I become. Might sound odd, but it's true. My mask is shy, polite and helpful. But around close friends I'm utterly manic, childish, hyperactive and making some of the most inappropriate jokes possible.

Sometimes it's nice to turn that awkwardness into a strange sort of false positive. Maybe that's why so many UK comedies rely on cringe/awkward scenes. To see that famous "stiff upper lip" start to twitch, because something is occurring that NT's find unpalatable.

I don't know. My reply feels a bit all over the place. I guess, so long as you're happy with your partner, and you reassure her when she has moments she gets concerned about other people's behaviours etc. It should be all good. Communication is key - I can be so open online, but in real life I tend to clam up. Especially in relationships.

Ed

 

[Shamar]

Hey all,
I'm struggling with a particular experience resulting from the fact that I struggle to read social cues. My lack of perception here has led to a lot of really embarrassing situations, but most acutely it seems to come up a lot around the expression of romantic interest, or flirting. I have a monogamous partner and I'm beyond happy in and grateful for our relationship; but we circulate in a world with a lot of single folks our age, and she's helped me understand the extent to which I'm oftentimes being flirted with by friends/coworkers/etc. I think people in our particular community just have a lot of energy in that way, and apparently it's a very regularized occurrence, though one that slips below my radar.

It's not that I can't comprehend the idea of what flirting *is,* or even memorize the signs of how to identify it; or even that I don't sometimes catch it and understand it. It's just that no matter how much I work on that awareness, it's still ALWAYS catching me off guard, and blindsiding me - like every time it happens (and my partner very patiently helps me identify when it does) its brand new to me, and I never see it coming, or perceive that it's happening as it happens - she still always has to fill me in on it later, and sort of explain it to me.

I feel pretty bad about this - it's obviously a lot of energy for my partner to hold, and though I can't speak for her exactly about the experience, I'll try to frame some of the difficulties I understand it as bringing to her end of the relationship. (For the record, she's truly a saint.)

It's not that I have interest in other persons, that I'm intentionally flirting back, or that she feels like she can't trust me. And she's not at all a jealous partner or person. But it's a lot of work on her end, both to watch this unfold, or to know it is happening, to understand that I don't perceive it, and even and on top of that, to basically have to walk me through it each time so that I can then know to show her the emotional support I would absolutely want to give in response (like signaling my closeness to her when it is happening, so that people know I'm not open to them).

What's more, the fact that I can't really read this as happening means that, thought I'm not exactly there to receive the flirtations, I'm not understanding what's happening enough to reject them either. My partner has to kind of hold this fear that I won't perceive when I'm crossing into territory that a more neurotypical partner might recognize as intimate or discrete - she's expressed oftentimes the fear that many of these individuals may feel they hold a special, under-the-table connection with me - and that even though she knows that I'm not present for that, it's like she sort of sees me negotiating a world where others are free to read their own understanding of their relationship with me unto a kind of blank slate.

It's also frustrating, because it oftentimes results in a relational dynamic with others in which they feel like they have a kind of open access to connection with me, and she's sort of expressed the idea that it's hard because it can feel to her like others perceive that they're much closer to me and, implicitly, to our relationship than they are - even to the point where they can kind of act like they're "sharing" me with her, very openly, if that makes sense? Like that it should be a point of connection, even between them and her, that they can talk about and share together.

I hope that doesn't all sound too strange. I don't think there's a particular question for in in all of this that I'm trying to crowdsource - though any advice is always totally welcome. I'm new to negotiating my identification with Aspergers, and I'm working through it with my therapist, my friends and my partner - so any wisdom helps and is welcome. But I would definitely also love to hear other people's experience around these issues, to learn more about how other couples have negotiated these kinds of tensions, how it might feel to be the neurotypical partner in this situation, and what I might do to be a better partner through it.

I feel fairly confused - I think because of my inability to read these cues, I've never before considered the possibility of being flirted with - but now, because I'm close to a partner who knows me well enough to articulate these occurrences for me, there's this whole new world of subtext, and suddenly negotiating that world or reality is like a huge part of my experience - but it's a part of my experience that I'm not actually experiencing. But it's still something I am experiencing, in contour. I don't really have a lot of tools for doing this - or even for recognizing the occurrence. I feel pretty sorry that she holds so much weight for the both of us here, though she does so very gracefully.

Believe me, you are not alone in this. Things like body language, posture, intonation, and facial expression are meaningless to me. By that I mean they don't even register. Words and actions only. One time a young lady had to sit on my lap and proceed to try and suck my teeth out before I got the message.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Hey all,
I'm struggling with a particular experience resulting from the fact that I struggle to read social cues. My lack of perception here has led to a lot of really embarrassing situations, but most acutely it seems to come up a lot around the expression of romantic interest, or flirting. I have a monogamous partner and I'm beyond happy in and grateful for our relationship; but we circulate in a world with a lot of single folks our age, and she's helped me understand the extent to which I'm oftentimes being flirted with by friends/coworkers/etc. I think people in our particular community just have a lot of energy in that way, and apparently it's a very regularized occurrence, though one that slips below my radar.

It's not that I can't comprehend the idea of what flirting *is,* or even memorize the signs of how to identify it; or even that I don't sometimes catch it and understand it. It's just that no matter how much I work on that awareness, it's still ALWAYS catching me off guard, and blindsiding me - like every time it happens (and my partner very patiently helps me identify when it does) its brand new to me, and I never see it coming, or perceive that it's happening as it happens - she still always has to fill me in on it later, and sort of explain it to me.

I feel pretty bad about this - it's obviously a lot of energy for my partner to hold, and though I can't speak for her exactly about the experience, I'll try to frame some of the difficulties I understand it as bringing to her end of the relationship. (For the record, she's truly a saint.)

It's not that I have interest in other persons, that I'm intentionally flirting back, or that she feels like she can't trust me. And she's not at all a jealous partner or person. But it's a lot of work on her end, both to watch this unfold, or to know it is happening, to understand that I don't perceive it, and even and on top of that, to basically have to walk me through it each time so that I can then know to show her the emotional support I would absolutely want to give in response (like signaling my closeness to her when it is happening, so that people know I'm not open to them).

What's more, the fact that I can't really read this as happening means that, thought I'm not exactly there to receive the flirtations, I'm not understanding what's happening enough to reject them either. My partner has to kind of hold this fear that I won't perceive when I'm crossing into territory that a more neurotypical partner might recognize as intimate or discrete - she's expressed oftentimes the fear that many of these individuals may feel they hold a special, under-the-table connection with me - and that even though she knows that I'm not present for that, it's like she sort of sees me negotiating a world where others are free to read their own understanding of their relationship with me unto a kind of blank slate.

It's also frustrating, because it oftentimes results in a relational dynamic with others in which they feel like they have a kind of open access to connection with me, and she's sort of expressed the idea that it's hard because it can feel to her like others perceive that they're much closer to me and, implicitly, to our relationship than they are - even to the point where they can kind of act like they're "sharing" me with her, very openly, if that makes sense? Like that it should be a point of connection, even between them and her, that they can talk about and share together.

I hope that doesn't all sound too strange. I don't think there's a particular question for in in all of this that I'm trying to crowdsource - though any advice is always totally welcome. I'm new to negotiating my identification with Aspergers, and I'm working through it with my therapist, my friends and my partner - so any wisdom helps and is welcome. But I would definitely also love to hear other people's experience around these issues, to learn more about how other couples have negotiated these kinds of tensions, how it might feel to be the neurotypical partner in this situation, and what I might do to be a better partner through it.

I feel fairly confused - I think because of my inability to read these cues, I've never before considered the possibility of being flirted with - but now, because I'm close to a partner who knows me well enough to articulate these occurrences for me, there's this whole new world of subtext, and suddenly negotiating that world or reality is like a huge part of my experience - but it's a part of my experience that I'm not actually experiencing. But it's still something I am experiencing, in contour. I don't really have a lot of tools for doing this - or even for recognizing the occurrence. I feel pretty sorry that she holds so much weight for the both of us here, though she does so very gracefully.

I've been married for 35 years. You are correct in that you will never pick up on so-called signals, hints, flirting, and clues. Communication is critical in any relationship, so you have to set up some ground rules for communication.

The other thing, it is an interesting thing to be with someone this long and have zero idea what each other is thinking. We always have to ask.

Speaking in a very direct manner with brutal honesty, may be a difficult transition, because most neurotypicals speak in "soft, indirect language". Many neurotypicals, especially females, may feel that direct communication is rude, but direct communication can be done in a very relaxed and honest way that doesn't involve an emotional sting. For example: She says, "Why don't you mow the lawn?" I say, "Because the grass isn't long enough." But what she might actually be doing is giving me an order,...and not actually asking me a question. What my wife says now is, "Mow the lawn." Perfect. Got it. Thank you.

Instead of giving hints and clues about being intimate,...that you might not pick up on,...be more direct. "If you're good, we can have some "playtime" tonight". Some may think that spontaneity in a relationship is exciting, but often spontaneity is preceded by a series of clues and hints,...which you might not pick up on. So, again, agree on a communication style that works for you two.

 

[unperson]

Sounds like 'circles of acquaintance' stuff, I have the same problem, treat everyone the same, but close relationships expect priority and that the relationship is publicly prioritised to others.

On the plus side, a lot of wives/girlfriends of autistic men complain that they don't use jealousy to subtly confirm the status of the relationship, so you don't have that problem. She should know how much an autistic would dread forming a new relationship, but I guess she doesn't.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Believe me, you are not alone in this. Things like body language, posture, intonation, and facial expression are meaningless to me. By that I mean they don't even register. Words and actions only. One time a young lady had to sit on my lap and proceed to try and suck my teeth out before I got the message.

I had a similar situation years ago before I got married Sitting in the sales department during a break liked to listen to the banter, she planted herself on the desk I as sitting in facing me was at odds to know what to do.

 

[Christian]

Believe me, you are not alone in this. Things like body language, posture, intonation, and facial expression are meaningless to me. By that I mean they don't even register. Words and actions only. One time a young lady had to sit on my lap and proceed to try and suck my teeth out before I got the message.

Yeah, I understand the feeling, in my teenage years I associate laugh with flirting, but I was complete oblivious to jokes, I take them literally, I still take them literally or just not laugh at all, but in my personal experience, woman always consider me an alien, for my personal taste in science and because I had a facial deformity that take four surgeries to correct.

 

[Skittlebisquit]

I think the only way to move fwd with all that is journaling about it. It's a valuable practice, and one can keep different notebooks for different topics. So write down as much as you perceive about the incident, and its interpretation, and who was involved. Eventually this body of knowledge will form patterns you can better percieve

 

[Christian]

I think the only way to move fwd with all that is journaling about it. It's a valuable practice, and one can keep different notebooks for different topics. So write down as much as you perceive about the incident, and its interpretation, and who was involved. Eventually this body of knowledge will form patterns you can better percieve

Even with that, people never would understand you, because you are social inept, as I am, would take everything that you as an insult or simply reject your conclusion, because not matter how much people say knowledge is power, sometimes people really not like to hear what contradict with their world view and simply dismiss you, even if what you say is true, is part of human nature, you act more human if you like, but by the end of the day, you would be a stranger, never fit in their social circle.

 

[rse92]

I’m not sure what your issue is here. Woman flirt with you, you don’t recognize it. That’s classic ASD. You don’t act on it. Your wife isn’t upset, jealous or lacking trust in you, but it’s exhausting to her because … women flirt with you all the time? Sounds almost like a humblebrag.

 

[Shamar]

Hey all,
I'm struggling with a particular experience resulting from the fact that I struggle to read social cues. My lack of perception here has led to a lot of really embarrassing situations, but most acutely it seems to come up a lot around the expression of romantic interest, or flirting. I have a monogamous partner and I'm beyond happy in and grateful for our relationship; but we circulate in a world with a lot of single folks our age, and she's helped me understand the extent to which I'm oftentimes being flirted with by friends/coworkers/etc. I think people in our particular community just have a lot of energy in that way, and apparently it's a very regularized occurrence, though one that slips below my radar.

It's not that I can't comprehend the idea of what flirting *is,* or even memorize the signs of how to identify it; or even that I don't sometimes catch it and understand it. It's just that no matter how much I work on that awareness, it's still ALWAYS catching me off guard, and blindsiding me - like every time it happens (and my partner very patiently helps me identify when it does) its brand new to me, and I never see it coming, or perceive that it's happening as it happens - she still always has to fill me in on it later, and sort of explain it to me.

I feel pretty bad about this - it's obviously a lot of energy for my partner to hold, and though I can't speak for her exactly about the experience, I'll try to frame some of the difficulties I understand it as bringing to her end of the relationship. (For the record, she's truly a saint.)

It's not that I have interest in other persons, that I'm intentionally flirting back, or that she feels like she can't trust me. And she's not at all a jealous partner or person. But it's a lot of work on her end, both to watch this unfold, or to know it is happening, to understand that I don't perceive it, and even and on top of that, to basically have to walk me through it each time so that I can then know to show her the emotional support I would absolutely want to give in response (like signaling my closeness to her when it is happening, so that people know I'm not open to them).

What's more, the fact that I can't really read this as happening means that, thought I'm not exactly there to receive the flirtations, I'm not understanding what's happening enough to reject them either. My partner has to kind of hold this fear that I won't perceive when I'm crossing into territory that a more neurotypical partner might recognize as intimate or discrete - she's expressed oftentimes the fear that many of these individuals may feel they hold a special, under-the-table connection with me - and that even though she knows that I'm not present for that, it's like she sort of sees me negotiating a world where others are free to read their own understanding of their relationship with me unto a kind of blank slate.

It's also frustrating, because it oftentimes results in a relational dynamic with others in which they feel like they have a kind of open access to connection with me, and she's sort of expressed the idea that it's hard because it can feel to her like others perceive that they're much closer to me and, implicitly, to our relationship than they are - even to the point where they can kind of act like they're "sharing" me with her, very openly, if that makes sense? Like that it should be a point of connection, even between them and her, that they can talk about and share together.

I hope that doesn't all sound too strange. I don't think there's a particular question for in in all of this that I'm trying to crowdsource - though any advice is always totally welcome. I'm new to negotiating my identification with Aspergers, and I'm working through it with my therapist, my friends and my partner - so any wisdom helps and is welcome. But I would definitely also love to hear other people's experience around these issues, to learn more about how other couples have negotiated these kinds of tensions, how it might feel to be the neurotypical partner in this situation, and what I might do to be a better partner through it.

I feel fairly confused - I think because of my inability to read these cues, I've never before considered the possibility of being flirted with - but now, because I'm close to a partner who knows me well enough to articulate these occurrences for me, there's this whole new world of subtext, and suddenly negotiating that world or reality is like a huge part of my experience - but it's a part of my experience that I'm not actually experiencing. But it's still something I am experiencing, in contour. I don't really have a lot of tools for doing this - or even for recognizing the occurrence. I feel pretty sorry that she holds so much weight for the both of us here, though she does so very gracefully.

Rereading your original post, I came up with a slightly new perspective. Someone flirting with you is one thing. and is usually harmless. Someone coming on to you is entirely different. That can create trouble in your relationship. Unfortunately, I cannot help you further. I cannot recognize when either is happening, and have no idea where one crosses into the other. Perhaps you should talk to your partner about this aspect.

 

[Christian]

I’m not sure what your issue is here. Woman flirt with you, you don’t recognize it. That’s classic ASD. You don’t act on it. Your wife isn’t upset, jealous or lacking trust in you, but it’s exhausting to her because … women flirt with you all the time? Sounds almost like a humblebrag.

Maybe he isn't giving her the words that she really wants "I love you", people like us, that is very hard to say those words, because never would sound genuine, because you are emotional empty or better yet, you not actually understand emotions even if you can feel them, I can feel a varied of emotions, but I can never understand the emotions of others, sometimes I laugh at inappropriate moments or simply imitate other people laugh, when I genuinely laugh, people think that I am insane.