Argument with spouse / communication problems

[Aspea]

I would like to share something I've learned about being married, but I think this probably applies to any relationship or just communication in general.

For years I'd get into hours-long heated discussions with my husband, who is NT, and we both felt that nothing had been resolved. Then one day I read a few books about emotional intelligence, and it was like a whole new dimension opened up to me.

I used to firmly believe that communication is for facts. Talking is for the express purpose of relaying information. Relating is much less important. Communication is primarily and overwhelming about relaying information.

My husband, and probably most other people, believe that communication is for relating + facts. I ignored the relating component.

This naturally leads to arguments or circular discussions that accomplish nothing. But why? Because the NT is expecting things they are not getting, and the person on the spectrum is also expecting things they are not getting.

The NT expects things like validation, for one. It turns out that validation is extremely important--and not just to the NT. I like to receive validation too. What is validation? You can read about it here; it is a very important element of emotional intelligence that I mostly ignored for my whole life.

Real-life example of validation that immediately stopped yet another heated discussion going nowhere and removed a lot of tension: I said to my husband, "I understand, and you deserve to be heard too."

Meanwhile, the person on the spectrum is expecting (or at least in my case) concreteness, clarity, specifics.

My husband and I have learned to meet in the middle and modify our communication expectations and styles. He tries to deliver more clarity and I try to tune into and deliver more emotional intelligence. It's still not perfect but it's far, far better than it used to be.

 

[Thinx]

Great points, it's good that you researched this and I think that's one of the ways we can use great skills that we have to manage difficulties we come up against, or areas where we or others may feel we have a deficit.

I feel like I use my thinking and reasoning often to work out issues that NTs use intuition and emotional or social abilities to handle. We can get there by a different route.

 

[Aspychata]

Prefacing conversations with validation really smooths out the discourse. It keeps you on track to stay cordial with tone of voice, (something we can forget especially).

Interesting post, should be a daily reminder for us. Validate validate and validate and when in doubt, validate some more. Lol

 

[Unclewolverine]

Definitely true, I used to feel that the response to whatever was said was enough but apparently NTs actually want the words said that whatever the conversation is about were heard and will be taken into consideration. On the face that seems like something that would be more on our level but I bet there have been times in the past that although we continue the conversation, we didn't pick up on what they actually wanted us to hear.

 

[Tom]

It took us quite a while, but we came to the same general realization eventually. What the other wants/needs is just as important as what we do. Also learning to recognize one's own maladjustments and work on them conscientiously.

 

[Rasputin]

I would like to share something I've learned about being married, but I think this probably applies to any relationship or just communication in general.

For years I'd get into hours-long heated discussions with my husband, who is NT, and we both felt that nothing had been resolved. Then one day I read a few books about emotional intelligence, and it was like a whole new dimension opened up to me.

I used to firmly believe that communication is for facts. Talking is for the express purpose of relaying information. Relating is much less important. Communication is primarily and overwhelming about relaying information.

My husband, and probably most other people, believe that communication is for relating + facts. I ignored the relating component.

This naturally leads to arguments or circular discussions that accomplish nothing. But why? Because the NT is expecting things they are not getting, and the person on the spectrum is also expecting things they are not getting.

The NT expects things like validation, for one. It turns out that validation is extremely important--and not just to the NT. I like to receive validation too. What is validation? You can read about it here; it is a very important element of emotional intelligence that I mostly ignored for my whole life.

Real-life example of validation that immediately stopped yet another heated discussion going nowhere and removed a lot of tension: I said to my husband, "I understand, and you deserve to be heard too."

Meanwhile, the person on the spectrum is expecting (or at least in my case) concreteness, clarity, specifics.

My husband and I have learned to meet in the middle and modify our communication expectations and styles. He tries to deliver more clarity and I try to tune into and deliver more emotional intelligence. It's still not perfect but it's far, far better than it used to be.

I really enjoyed reading this from the Aspie woman’s point of view. My wife and I experience this same problem daily, with me being the Aspie husband and her being the NT wife. I have tried to understand her frustrations, but it seems impossible without being disingenuous. As an example, my wife calls me at work because a delivery man called to see if we needed salt in our water softener. I asked my wife to check the salt level and she gets frustrated because she doesn’t know what she is looking at. So I tell her to send me a photo so I can see. Then she gets more frustrated and complains she needs validation that I understand how she feels. My understanding is that I err in trying to solve the problem when she wants consoling. I do not understand this need for consoling.

Another example, she calls me at work because she can not authenticate to our video streaming service. A different problem which I try to solve quickly. Meanwhile she is a bundle of emotional frustration which I do not understand.

I have learned to expect these communication issues, so I try to wait until she leaves to resolve any household problems. If she sees me working to resolve a problem she freaks out believing I will make a mistake and an argument ensues. If she is not around and I solve her problem she is as happy as a clam.

 

[Rasputin]

Prefacing conversations with validation first really smooths out the discourse. It keeps you on track to stay cordial with tone of voice, (something we can forget especially).

Interesting post, should be a daily reminder for us. Validate validate and validate and when in doubt, validate some more. Lol

My wife already reminds me daily. I don’t need an additional reminder. (sarcastic humor)

 

[Progster]

Yes, this is an area I could definitely improve in. I tend to want to help or offer advice when that's not what the person was after - or, perhaps they do want advice, but I have no way of knowing what it is they want.

As an example, my wife calls me at work because a delivery man called to see if we needed salt in our water softener. I asked my wife to check the salt level and she gets frustrated because she doesn’t know what she is looking at. So I tell her to send me a photo so I can see. Then she gets more frustrated and complains she needs validation that I understand how she feels.

In this situation I would have done exactly the same, I would assume they are phoning me because they have a problem to solve and need help, and if a person is frustrated over a problem, the natural thing for me to do is to try to solve it. It would never occur to me that they want validation.

And when I have a problem and ask for help - which I do as a last resort because I try to solve it myself first - I do so because I want a solution and not validation, so I'd find it very frustrating if a person just tried to validate without helping.

Different people with different expectations creating a communication mismatch.

 

[Varzar]

Prefacing conversations with validation first really smooths out the discourse. It keeps you on track to stay cordial with tone of voice, (something we can forget especially).

Interesting post, should be a daily reminder for us. Validate validate and validate and when in doubt, validate some more. Lol

Even when I try to validate someone's feeling, I get the impression there is no appropriate emotional tone behind it, so it is never taken as legitimate validation. Instead, I gather it sounds like I'm just saying the words or perhaps being patronizing.. idk..

 

[Thinx]

Even when I try to validate someone's feeling, I get the impression there is no appropriate emotional tone behind it, so it is never taken as legitimate validation. Instead, I gather it sounds like I'm just saying the words or perhaps being patronizing.. idk..

There might be some phrases you could avoid this with. What do you tend to say? I m thinking phrases like, Thanks for telling me that , I do understand how hard it was for you? Or, Thanks, I really get what you mean about that. Would possibly work ok? Tone can be tricky though.

 

[Varzar]

There might be some phrases you could avoid this with. What do you tend to say? I m thinking phrases like, Thanks for telling me that , I do understand how hard it was for you? Or, Thanks, I really get what you mean about that. Would possibly work ok? Tone can be tricky though.

Yup, those are the words I try to use. Also, "I understand how you feel about X".
But yeah, I think it's my tone that's always wrong. It doesn't convey the expected emotion to go with the words, so I guess it comes across as insincere.

It was a slightly different situation, but I once sincerely thanked my wife for telling me something, and she started crying cause she thought I was being sarcastic. Fortunately, she's at least learning to ignore my tone more and just listen to the words. But, I still do wish I could somehow be better at hearing and using tone. I seem to be pretty deaf to it though.
Lots of times when we have moments like that she will try to say the phrase for me with two different tones to try and help, but they generally always sound the same to me.

 

[Aspychata]

It's our tone. I really need to think about my tone and not attach importance to the other's tone because it ends up not being what l thought it was.

Like we need little tone meter boxes that keep us out of trouble. Lol.

 

[DogzSpirit]

@Aspea Thank you for this post. It has been very useful.

First: This link was a winner, which both myself and my husband are reviewing. I do like sticking to facts, and squaring away all in a precise manner. I am up for discussing emotions, but first down to business... What happened, state the facts and resolve the issue. That truly doesn't work as I have confirmed he is seeking what is stated as validation, and sincere understanding with an apology for even the tiniest of things, which I often don't even consider require extra verbal acknowledgement. I have to go beyond my outlook, which would have me labeling this as unnecessary extra verbiage. It's a give and take, in which the puniest of things cannot be cleared up with mere acknowledgement of facts. Let's see if I come out of this feeling sane. For we are talking about a rewiring of response.

Second: Tone is also an area of challenge for my marriage. My misreading/missing the meaning of his tone, is right up there, with my not using the right tone/or facial response when I state something.

In the past, our discussions will be side swiped with focus on my misunderstood tone. Apparently my facial expression does not accurately depict my intended message either.

We then go round and round in circles, with it turning into his declaring my tone/face is worried, sad, depressed or angry, when in fact I was none of the above. It's such an energy drain and distraction, on the focus of the original communication.

After speaking, He admitted he still struggles to understand why I cannot convey voice tone or facial expression in a more precise manner. Yet, he acknowledges that my wiring may be responsible for this misunderstanding.

 

[Aspea]

I am up for discussing emotions, but first down to business... What happened, state the facts and resolve the issue.

That truly doesn't work

...as I have confirmed he is seeking what is stated as validation, and sincere understanding

Yep, that's how it has to go. I find that I have to switch gears in my brain and tune into emotional awareness, which is not my natural state, and it requires effort to do.

Switching the gears and tuning into emotional awareness, if it can be done, is the quickest, most peaceful path to relating and building understanding and intimacy with the other person. I read about this in many books; this is the only reason why I understand this process. My husband tried to explain it to me for years; I do not learn from verbal communication. The world of emotional awareness is a very broad, vast, expanse of some other dimension that I didn't really know existed until about 2 years ago, but it's very important.

I have to go beyond my outlook, which would have me labeling this as unnecessary extra verbiage.

Yeah, lots of irrelevant data. Or so it seems. In the case of my husband, he struggles to accurately express what he is thinking or feeling. From my perspective anyway. To me, sufficient accuracy would be to say: "I feel like you do not understand what I'm going through and I need you to try harder to understand." But this brings up the point that communication is subjective (which is quite frustrating), especially when we are talking about the emotional realm. Who is to say what constitutes "sufficient accuracy?" The problem is my lack of theory of mind; my strategy my whole life to compensate for this has been to acquire more data, more accuracy, more clarity in language, which he is not used to having to do, but which I need.

I actually went back over a section of my journals for this post. From my journal:

"I figured out that when people talk, they have a 'thesis' or a 'main point' they are making that probably does not match the words they are using. Their words are either insufficient, or are being accidentally or purposefully misused, or are being used the wrong way. I have to develop an internal translator that can interpret what they are saying so that I can understand the hidden message."

Second: Tone is also an area of challenge for my marriage. My misreading/missing the meaning of his tone, is right up there, with my not using the right tone/or facial response when I state something.

I do this too; I misread his tone, and it has led to arguments.

 

[Magna]

I really enjoyed reading this from the Aspie woman’s point of view. My wife and I experience this same problem daily, with me being the Aspie husband and her being the NT wife. I have tried to understand her frustrations, but it seems impossible without being disingenuous. As an example, my wife calls me at work because a delivery man called to see if we needed salt in our water softener. I asked my wife to check the salt level and she gets frustrated because she doesn’t know what she is looking at. So I tell her to send me a photo so I can see. Then she gets more frustrated and complains she needs validation that I understand how she feels. My understanding is that I err in trying to solve the problem when she wants consoling. I do not understand this need for consoling.

Another example, she calls me at work because she can not authenticate to our video streaming service. A different problem which I try to solve quickly. Meanwhile she is a bundle of emotional frustration which I do not understand.

I have learned to expect these communication issues, so I try to wait until she leaves to resolve any household problems. If she sees me working to resolve a problem she freaks out believing I will make a mistake and an argument ensues. If she is not around and I solve her problem she is as happy as a clam.

The following is a broad generalization, but it's said that in general, men are "fixers". Being a man myself and being autistic and very logical I have a hard time understanding why anyone would talk to me about a problem they're having unless they want me to help fix the problem? It's completely illogical to me that anyone would talk about a problem just to talk about it. A problem is a problem. Problems are bad. Problems are meant to be solved. Solving a problem makes a person's life better. Having a problem makes a person's life worse.

Women more than men in my experience (surely not all women) just want someone to listen and be validated for their feelings sometimes. It's not about fixing the problem it's about being heard. I don't understand that personally, but I do understand that my wife needs that. The problem is that sometimes she DOES want my advice and help in fixing a problem, however it's not possible for me to discern when she just wants me to listen vs wants me to fix. I can't read her mind. It's not fair for me to ignore her need for me to just listen and validate. It's also not fair for her to expect me to know when she wants me to just listen rather than fix.

What's our solution after years of marriage? THANKFULLY my wife is understanding enough to be direct up front at times when she just wants me to listen to her (e.g. vent about her day, etc) by literally saying: "I don't need you to fix this, I just want you to listen." With that I'm able to listen and abstain from offering my advice to fix the issue. If I recall, at some point in our marriage I think I asked her to be that direct with me when she just wants me to listen. It would behoove any autistic person in a relationship to ask their partner/spouse to be direct like that when they just "want you to listen." Am I still thinking of solutions while she's talking? Absolutely. But I know in those instances to keep quiet about them.

 

[Rasputin]

The following is a broad generalization, but it's said that in general, men are "fixers". Being a man myself and being autistic and very logical I have a hard time understanding why anyone would talk to me about a problem they're having unless they want me to help fix the problem? It's completely illogical to me that anyone would talk about a problem just to talk about it. A problem is a problem. Problems are bad. Problems are meant to be solved. Solving a problem makes a person's life better. Having a problem makes a person's life worse.

Women more than men in my experience (surely not all women) just want someone to listen and be validated for their feelings sometimes. It's not about fixing the problem it's about being heard. I don't understand that personally, but I do understand that my wife needs that. The problem is that sometimes she DOES want my advice and help in fixing a problem, however it's not possible for me to discern when she just wants me to listen vs wants me to fix. I can't read her mind. It's not fair for me to ignore her need for me to just listen and validate. It's also not fair for her to expect me to know when she wants me to just listen rather than fix.

What's our solution after years of marriage? THANKFULLY my wife is understanding enough to be direct up front at times when she just wants me to listen to her (e.g. vent about her day, etc) by literally saying: "I don't need you to fix this, I just want you to listen." With that I'm able to listen rather than analyze what she's saying and offer my advice to fix the issue. If I recall, at some point in our marriage I think I asked her to be that direct with me when she just wants me to listen. It would behoove any autistic person in a relationship to ask their partner/spouse to be direct like that when they just "want you to listen." Am I still thinking of solutions while she's talking? Absolutely. But I know in those instances to keep quiet about them.

I may need to reinforce my wife’s understanding of my need for clarity in her communications. She was very happy recently when I negotiated a trade for her new car, and updated our insurance coverages. It is the day-to-day communication of problems that is confusing to me.

 

[Magna]

I may need to reinforce my wife’s understanding of my need for clarity in her communications. She was very happy recently when I negotiated a trade for her new car, and updated our insurance coverages. It is the day-to-day communication of problems that is confusing to me.

You're on the right track. Her need for wanting you to just listen to and acknowledge (validate) problems and frustrations she encounters in her life is absolutely valid and she'd probably feel very good to hear you tell her that even if you don't understand that need. It would be unreasonable to be unsympathetic to her need for just wanting you to listen and validate sometimes.

Here's an equally important part of the equation that can't be understated and is equally valid: it would serve both of you best if she starts prefacing the times she wants you to just listen with a direct statement: "I don't need you to fix this, I just want you to listen." That defines the context and the reason for the interaction in that particular instance for you. It also clarifies the role for you that she wants/needs you to assume in that instance (ie a listener rather than a fixer). It would be unreasonable for her to be unsympathetic to your need for her to be direct in telling you what she wants/needs in those instances.

It goes both ways.

 

[ForestGumpett]

I can “get” both sides of this with the NT wife. One, computers or anything technical. Not mechanical, I got that and love physics but I’m talking the whole computer and new TV stuff. I lose my mind when the TV/computer thingy won’t work. It ask for all kinds of pass words and then ask for other things that I have no idea what it is. I want an On and Off button and volume. Why should we need more? Totally confusing and makes life so difficult, to me.

The second part is not knowing what your looking at. Some ppl can fix things but they have to know what the things are. Some people are not good with words.

The joke about books with pictures, well if you want me to understand you then draw it. I aced medicine in school by drawing everything even to the inside of the cell, draw, color and name it and I never forgot it. Did the whole body and everything medicine this way (weird art collection lol) Everything in my life I learn this way, but if read and not read aloud, then I quickly forget it or don’t remember it.

My husband has started drawing everything, he’s not an artist but things like when we talk money - when he writes it down and I can visually see it then we’re good, just a verbal and all I get is bla bla bla. Not on purpose, it just seem to be how I learn?

I really enjoyed reading this from the Aspie woman’s point of view. My wife and I experience this same problem daily, with me being the Aspie husband and her being the NT wife. I have tried to understand her frustrations, but it seems impossible without being disingenuous. As an example, my wife calls me at work because a delivery man called to see if we needed salt in our water softener. I asked my wife to check the salt level and she gets frustrated because she doesn’t know what she is looking at. So I tell her to send me a photo so I can see. Then she gets more frustrated and complains she needs validation that I understand how she feels. My understanding is that I err in trying to solve the problem when she wants consoling. I do not understand this need for consoling.

Another example, she calls me at work because she can not authenticate to our video streaming service. A different problem which I try to solve quickly. Meanwhile she is a bundle of emotional frustration which I do not understand.

I have learned to expect these communication issues, so I try to wait until she leaves to resolve any household problems. If she sees me working to resolve a problem she freaks out believing I will make a mistake and an argument ensues. If she is not around and I solve her problem she is as happy as a clam.

 

[DogzSpirit]

The following is a broad generalization, but it's said that in general, men are "fixers". Being a man myself and being autistic and very logical I have a hard time understanding why anyone would talk to me about a problem they're having unless they want me to help fix the problem? It's completely illogical to me that anyone would talk about a problem just to talk about it. A problem is a problem. Problems are bad. Problems are meant to be solved. Solving a problem makes a person's life better. Having a problem makes a person's life worse.

Bingo... Exactly on the above. Why even mention something if you do not want to have the advantage of two minds.

Women more than men in my experience (surely not all women) just want someone to listen and be validated for their feelings sometimes. It's not about fixing the problem it's about being heard.

Took me many years to understand why fixing was a fixation of mine, compared to that of other female's who came to me for friendship. I frustrated them terribly as I gave advice and solutions. They on the other hand just wanted to ruminate over areas, and have a partner in crime enabling wise. I do not enable well, especially when the solution is incredibly clear.

I don't understand that personally, but I do understand that my wife needs that. The problem is that sometimes she DOES want my advice and help in fixing a problem, however it's not possible for me to discern when she just wants me to listen vs wants me to fix. I can't read her mind. It's not fair for me to ignore her need for me to just listen and validate. It's also not fair for her to expect me to know when she wants me to just listen rather than fix.

What's our solution after years of marriage? THANKFULLY my wife is understanding enough to be direct up front at times when she just wants me to listen to her (e.g. vent about her day, etc) by literally saying: "I don't need you to fix this, I just want you to listen." With that I'm able to listen and abstain from offering my advice to fix the issue. If I recall, at some point in our marriage I think I asked her to be that direct with me when she just wants me to listen. It would behoove any autistic person in a relationship to ask their partner/spouse to be direct like that when they just "want you to listen." Am I still thinking of solutions while she's talking? Absolutely. But I know in those instances to keep quiet about them.

You scored, congrats. You are doing better than I. I am not doing as well. A good example is this... My husband was attempting to make a streaming service/component work. He was frustrated and actually emailing someone repeatedly for that devices supposed issue. I asked him what he has done, and would he like me to look at the situation, and he clearly said he was handling that. I waited and watched. A week went by and I began reviewing the situation from a distance. Ah ha... "Why is the blue cable unplugged? Did you intentionally disconnect that while sizing up a different area of the device?" He said... "Where?" I said "There." He gave a nervous laugh, and I couldn't help it... I couldn't stop laughing. I tried so hard not to. (Gulp, laugh, gasp for breaths)

Ya gotta see the comically results of two different people coming together. Not everything should be so serious?

 

[Varzar]

@Aspea

First: This link was a winner, which both myself and my husband are reviewing.

Hiya @DogzSpirit! Was there supposed to be a link there? Or am I missing something. I would like to read whatever you're referring to.