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~~~ Are These Good First Messages To Ladies On P.O.F Dating (Opinions Please) ?? ~~~

Hopeless_Aspie_Guy

Well-Known Member
So this is the first of many messages I intend to post to gather some opinions on my ongoing hopelessness for romance with the ladies on dating sites (I'll try to answer other peoples questions I guess to return the favour). The messages you see below were opening messages I sent on 'plenty of fish' a fair amount of which caused the intended person to checkout my profile it showed, but in the grand scheme of roughly 60 individual messages I only got 3 responses, all positive yet quickly or eventually leading nowhere (to be included perhaps on another post).
Here are a few samples (bear in mind that some are in reference to their profiles, which I always show I've read);

Your profile pic kinda looks like you're wondering off into your own world lol, but in admiring your eyes and your beauty that's a world that I'd like to find my way into. So if we were both on a bus and you sat down next to me with us both looking initially in opposite directions and we turn briefly towards each-other and I flash my profile pic smile....what (if anything) happens next ???????

Hmmm, curvy, sophisticated, beautiful, decent effort put into her profile, not too sporty....yup I'm interested. To me you have a more exclusive beauty that grows with each passing look and hopefully a silvery voice then to top it off.
Pic #3 is the embodiment of all of the above!!


Whoa!! nice profile pic, it's nice to know that girls like you can still stand out even when there's such as massive choice on here. I'm sure in the event you are interested in me, we can learn more about each other, otherwise it was nice looking at you and all the best xx

Can't believe people thought it was a tan, nice tagline and I'd say you wrote a fairly long profile thats actually worth reading and too long to quote every great bit to prove I actually read it. I'll challenge your adoration for dogs with the lovely squeeks and peeps of a rat any day though so ;-P
5 randomn facts...ummm; I love the smell of magazine print. I happen to think that Indian women have the world greatest smiles. I'm wearing 'wheres wally' socks right now.I love marmite. Oh god,,,a fifth one...umm....well if you're actually interested in me at all I'll get back to you on that.
GOT A RESPONSE


Jeez...talk about a gorgeous princess with a fantastic smile (can;'t remember how to do an eye boggling smiley) but yer wow. I just hope you'll wanna talk to me. Take care xx
 
Do you message them mostly about how you find their physical appearance?

I can understand why you received a response on the one noted "got a response." It's the only message where you talk about something other than the woman's looks. You mention her profile; you talk about yourself in a down to earth and fun way.

If these women are attractive, they already get compliments on their physical appearance regularly, and many of those compliments may be unwanted (disrespectful guys on the street type). But, when someone focuses on other parts of them, like their interests and passions, likes and dislikes, that stands out because you can build a relationship, a friendship, from that, and that's very important. That is not to say that compliments aren't nice, but I'm sure on these dating sites, they receive many and possibly a good amount of them are a bit lecherous. But, that's just my guess from the articles I've read regarding online dating sites.
 
Do you message them mostly about how you find their physical appearance?

I can understand why you received a response on the one noted "got a response." It's the only message where you talk about something other than the woman's looks. You mention her profile; you talk about yourself in a down to earth and fun way.

If these women are attractive, they already get compliments on their physical appearance regularly, and many of those compliments may be unwanted (disrespectful guys on the street type). But, when someone focuses on other parts of them, like their interests and passions, likes and dislikes, that stands out because you can build a relationship, a friendship, from that, and that's very important. That is not to say that compliments aren't nice, but I'm sure on these dating sites, they receive many and possibly a good amount of them are a bit lecherous. But, that's just my guess from the articles I've read regarding online dating sites.
Well that and the fact that you're a woman with a valid opinion of her own (how nice to get a response from the user who partly inspired me to post a pic of me as a profile pic lol). To some degree I think you may just have brought up a slight fault in the examples I used as I'll always comment on the profile and common interests if they're mentioned (not all girls do, so all you got is their looks but this is where I wanna know if I'm missing something else, or just in those occasions). Here is another message (please see below) that I thought was a horrible cliche (which I almost included in the message) but got the 2nd/3 responses.

OMG Wow, are you supposed to be the angel at the gates of heaven or something, even your face has sexy curves lol. I'd like to talk about common interests or your profile but there's nothing to mention but you look very friendly and I hope you respond. xx
 
As a woman who has received more than her share of unwanted lecherous attention (that's a good old-fashioned word you don't hear much these days!), I agree with pushpin. I used to read the dating columns in the local newspaper just for fun and it seemed overwhelmingly that the women who posted that they were looking for someone had much more interesting proflies than the men, who seemed to be focused on much shallower things,

If you want to be interesting to a woman then you must learn to be an interesting person yourself. There are so many guys who complain that they strike out in the romance category but when you look at their approach it is easy to see why. They are basically looking for one thing, which they could get from any streetcorner hooker, except that they do not want to pay for it, which lets them off the hook as far as they are concerned. "Who me? I'm not treating you like a free prostitute! No way! What are you talking about? You're crazy." Yes, I've had guys get mad at me when I call them on their BS. Too bad. No one wants to be treated as a one-dimensional object. I have a brain as well as a vagina, thank you. If you would spend as much time trying to get into my head and my heart as you do elsewhere, you might have a chance. Otherwise, no. At least hookers get paid.
 
As a woman who has received more than her share of unwanted lecherous attention (that's a good old-fashioned word you don't hear much these days!), I agree with pushpin. I used to read the dating columns in the local newspaper just for fun and it seemed overwhelmingly that the women who posted that they were looking for someone had much more interesting proflies than the men, who seemed to be focused on much shallower things,

If you want to be interesting to a woman then you must learn to be an interesting person yourself. There are so many guys who complain that they strike out in the romance category but when you look at their approach it is easy to see why. They are basically looking for one thing, which they could get from any streetcorner hooker, except that they do not want to pay for it, which lets them off the hook as far as they are concerned. "Who me? I'm not treating you like a free prostitute! No way! What are you talking about? You're crazy." Yes, I've had guys get mad at me when I call them on their BS. Too bad. No one wants to be treated as a one-dimensional object. I have a brain as well as a vagina, thank you. If you would spend as much time trying to get into my head and my heart as you do elsewhere, you might have a chance. Otherwise, no. At least hookers get paid.
Ok and in response to that potentially useful post. The image I use as my profile pic on here is typically the one I use as my dating profile pic (just something to bear in mind) aren't women judging by looks (not purely) as well though and surely you gotta compliment their looks whilst never focusing purely on looks (assuming they've written a profile to comment on). Writing a good profile is hard, not because I don't know what to say but because there are so many things that can appeal to one and not to another and then there's the length and I've adjusted these over the few weeks I've had my profile up (and the one's months ago). There's always the concern of whether something's intellectually intriguing or obnoxious, clear and defined or just picky and narrow sighted etc.
 
The women on these sites are "shopping," just as you are. While each person is different, she is likely looking for someone who she can build a friendship with, build trust with, and then build a relationship with. He needs to show her that he wants those things too, and that he's got the tools to do this. Building trust is a long process. Physical attributes mentioned by a man can instead make the man seem shallow, greedy, and only wanting something physical from her. Indicating integrity as a potential partner may mean instead addressing common interests, and relating that one understands that building trust together takes time, patience, and supportiveness.
 
The women on these sites are "shopping," just as you are. While each person is different, she is likely looking for someone who she can build a friendship with, build trust with, and then build a relationship with. He needs to show her that he wants those things too, and that he's got the tools to do this. Building trust is a long process. Physical attributes mentioned by a man can instead make the man seem shallow, greedy, and only wanting something physical from her. Indicating integrity as a potential partner may mean instead addressing common interests, and relating that one understands that building trust together takes time, patience, and supportiveness.
I can resist that urge I have to always truthfully compliment and there does seem to begin to be a recurring variation of similar yet helpful answer here (and look forward to more to) but where then is this leading to?

1)Is attraction and appreciation of beauty an unspoken assumption when taking the time to write a message which treats each woman as an individual?

2) Are these fair amount of attractive women who include very little on their profile just waiting for someone to register their interest so they can look at my profile pics and perhaps read my profile or is asking question like "What kinda films you into" or starting up discussions based on first date ideas (with little or no mention of physical attractiveness) the implied way to go?
 
Actually, I've never written a profile, nor have I responded to one. I am, by choice, no longer in the dating game for many personal reasons which I won't go into here.

Yes, women do judge by looks (as well as men). That's a human trait which I don't think will ever be totally eradicated. But I personally consider character far more important. To compliment someone on their looks--especially someone you do not know--is easy. To compliment them on their character--well, that is an entirely different story.

If I were to write a profile, I would first start out by picturing the kind of person I would want to attract. What kind of people do I want to spend time with? Rather than worrying about things that might appeal to one and not the other. Do you even know what you want other than a vague "I want someone?"

You might be surprised to learn that many women are socialized from childhood for just that: that they need a man to make their lives complete. It doesn't matter what KIND of man, only that he be a man. I don't know if you are familiar with the play "Music Man", but it revolves around a small-town librarian whose brains and education intimidate the local men and so she remains unmarried to the dismay of her mother. When con artist Harold Hill comes to town, her mother thinks, "aha, he is her salvation." Never mind what kind of person Harold is, as her mother sings, "When a woman has a husband and you have none" why should the other women in the town take her seriously? Harold isn't interested in her as a person--he's interested because he's been told that she apparently has a hint of scandal in her past, and therefore is an easier lay (implied in the song "The Sadder But Wiser Girl For Me") than her more "virtuous" peers. The story is set in 1912 but as I mentioned to one of my fellow cast members, some things haven't changed a great deal. In the play, it all ends happily ever after (or does it?) but real life is another story.

So, who do you want to spend time with? What kind of person? Then sit down and describe them.
 
There's a song out there called "Me Neither" which I think is kind of cute. It's about a guy trying to pick up a woman at a bar who is initially not interested. He asks her if she wants to talk and she says, "no," and he says, "well, that's a relief, me neither." Then he asks her to dance and again she says no, and he says "thank goodness, I was just trying to be polite, me neither." And on and on, she refuses his suggestions and he says, "me, neither, I don't want to do those things either." Finally he gets to the end of the song where he says, "Would you like to end this song?" (Pause) (Silence). I laugh every time I hear it. Because now he's got her interested. She's thinking, he's not like all the others that have hit on me. He's different. I like that.
 
I agree with the others here, it's obvious why the one that got a response was successful when the others weren't. Not only was it the only one not focused of appearance, it's the only one which indicates that you are an interesting person and has a note of humour.

As for your questions: 1. Yes! Generally if you don't find someone attractive you won't bother messaging them, so there is an unspoken assumption of aesthetic appreciation when you send a message. Fixating on their appearance just comes across a shallow and a little arrogant in my opinion.
2. It depends on the women *shrug*

My advise would be:
Give some information of yourself in your message. The "5 random facts" thing is an excellent idea, I assume the woman had asked for them in the example you gave, but you could use the idea in other messages, and maybe ask for 5 in return. It gives an opportunity to show that you are interesting and imaginative, and prompts a response.
Try to include some humour.
If there is a specific thing about their appearance that you like maybe mention it, such as an amazing smile, or beautiful eyes but keep it tasteful,don't make it the main point of the message and don't make it cheesy.
 
Character is built by the positive things you do in life and is a hard badge to earn and keep
Reputation is something others build for you by the bad things you do and is an easy badge to obtain and very hard to lose


Relationships are not built on looks but character
Relationships are destroyed by reputation ;)

Work to gain character and strive to never have a reputation
 
I agree with the others here, it's obvious why the one that got a response was successful when the others weren't. Not only was it the only one not focused of appearance, it's the only one which indicates that you are an interesting person and has a note of humour.

As for your questions: 1. Yes! Generally if you don't find someone attractive you won't bother messaging them, so there is an unspoken assumption of aesthetic appreciation when you send a message. Fixating on their appearance just comes across a shallow and a little arrogant in my opinion.
2. It depends on the women *shrug*

My advise would be:
Give some information of yourself in your message. The "5 random facts" thing is an excellent idea, I assume the woman had asked for them in the example you gave, but you could use the idea in other messages, and maybe ask for 5 in return. It gives an opportunity to show that you are interesting and imaginative, and prompts a response.
Try to include some humour.
If there is a specific thing about their appearance that you like maybe mention it, such as an amazing smile, or beautiful eyes but keep it tasteful,don't make it the main point of the message and don't make it cheesy.
Wow I'm actually glad for once that I posted on a forum as the answers thus far are outside of my expectations and not regurgitating cliches or the obvious even though this message below in green got me a response (as she literally posted nothing but her photos).
OMG Wow, are you supposed to be the angel at the gates of heaven or something, even your face has sexy curves lol. I'd like to talk about common interests or your profile but there's nothing to mention but you look very friendly and I hope you respond. xx
There is always a pressure to try and stand out and I'd hate to be accused of being too fixated on being the best at it or just being able to stand out.

1)What is the advice for those (potentially nice girls) who posted nothing but ask you to ask away?
2) I did originally earlier this year post a profile identifying the ideal woman, but because I know my tastes to be so varied in many areas, I felt the description lost focus and became too long-winded i.e I like all races but prefer indian (and neighboring countries) although it could be a black girl who has also great looks and most importantly a winning yet previously undefined personality. I unfoertunately complicate things just by being me.

Keep answering this is useful and much appreciated, thanks all.
 
Hi Hopeless,
I am an NT woman and was on the dating sites for years, including POF. I am attractive, I use to model for awhile, I was a Budweiser girl for a few years so you can imagine how many messages I would get on POF, sometimes over 100 a day! (Please dont think that Im arrogant, I just thought this info was relevant to my reply, I would never mention this otherwise). So here's some insight into what I would think if you wrote me these messages … (Please don't be hurt by my responses, I am just be truthful and that is what you asked for …)

Your profile pic kinda looks like you're wondering off into your own world lol, but in admiring your eyes and your beauty that's a world that I'd like to find my way into. So if we were both on a bus and you sat down next to me with us both looking initially in opposite directions and we turn briefly towards each-other and I flash my profile pic smile....what (if anything) happens next ???????


I would NOT reply to this message because your first line could be offensive. It's like saying, "You look kinda funny but I got past that I started admiring your eyes" Then you say "I'd like to find my way into it" -- remember, there are ALOT of men on POF looking for sex, even if you are different than these men, I wouldn't know that … this line would raise a red flag and make me wonder … "is he saying he wants sex?" Finally, your last line would confirm to me that you want sex … BECAUSE you're basically saying "I want to find my way into you, and if we were together, what would you do to me?"

I know, thats a lot of interpretation on my part … but I've dated and been on those sites long enough to recognize who really wants to meet me based on my character and who just wants to get in my pants.


Hmmm, curvy, sophisticated, beautiful, decent effort put into her profile, not too sporty....yup I'm interested. To me you have a more exclusive beauty that grows with each passing look and hopefully a silvery voice then to top it off.
Pic #3 is the embodiment of all of the above!!

Again your first sentence would offend me a little, "decent effort put into your profile" that's saying … what you wrote is blah and you could have done better but since you're curvy and sophisticated and beautiful, I'm interested. So basically, I would think … he thinks my profile sucks but I look great and that's all he cares about. I would tune out after that. (Sorry… again, please dont take this personally, this is what I would think if I got these messages on POF).

Whoa!! nice profile pic, it's nice to know that girls like you can still stand out even when there's such as massive choice on here. I'm sure in the event you are interested in me, we can learn more about each other, otherwise it was nice looking at you and all the best xx

You caught my attention in the first line, why? Because you're telling me that I stand out from all the other women. BIG POINTS. But then you say at the end "its was nice looking at at you" and end it there. You're not aggressive ENOUGH in this message. I think if you use this first line and then mention something about her interests in her profile you would gain more points. Look for something, anything, in her profile that you share in common. Then USE it. For example, I see that you like Walking Dead, I love that show! What did you think of the last episode? Who's your favorite character? I really love ____ because …. You see? Now she HAS to reply to you. And if she doest, always keep in the back of your mind, she might be on the site but already dating a few guys … thats why she chooses not to respond. I would reply if you made these changes :)

Can't believe people thought it was a tan, nice tagline and I'd say you wrote a fairly long profile thats actually worth reading and too long to quote every great bit to prove I actually read it. I'll challenge your adoration for dogs with the lovely squeeks and peeps of a rat any day though so ;-P
5 randomn facts...ummm; I love the smell of magazine print. I happen to think that Indian women have the world greatest smiles. I'm wearing 'wheres wally' socks right now.I love marmite. Oh god,,,a fifth one...umm....well if you're actually interested in me at all I'll get back to you on that.
GOT A RESPONSE

The first sentence shows that you noticed something from my profile other than my looks -- Im going to read on! Wow! He actually read my whole profile? Now that doesnt happen often! You just quoted something from my profile so you were PAYING ATTENTION, nice! Your five facts are very cute and whitty, which means you're not a creep looking for sex. As for your last line "well if you're actually interested in me at all, I'll get back to you on that" ...you lost the power in this sentence, you sound unsure, unconfident. Girls dont like that. End it STRONG with "when I hear back from you, I'll get back to you on that ;) " If I got this message, I would write you back, even if I wasn't completely attracted to you because you've intrigued me :)


Again, I apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way, I'm just trying to be honest about how I would interpret those messages if I received them. (I hope nobody judges me because I made so many assumptions without even knowing the guy but after being on dating sites for sooooo long, a girl just "knows" who she wants to entertain and who she doesn't). Let me add, I met my ex Aspie (who I am still totally in love with) on a dating site and so they do work!

So how do you stand out? By writing something the other men dont -- by showing her how she stands out other than her appearance. Honestly, I was more interested in men who DIDNT mention my looks than the ones who went straight to "wow, you're hot." I know at one point, I erased most of my profile because I was so angry that nobody ever read it, so why should I even have one up? I'll just put my pictures up and if they want to know about me, they'll ask. A girl can get very overwhelmed and discouraged on those sites especially if she is getting 100 messages a day and they are all the same. Why? Because I wanted someone to like me for ME, not what I looked like. Yes, attraction is important but thats implied if you write me. I wanted someone to like me for more than my looks… I have depth, which guy will see that?

Remember, look for something in her profile that you have in common and focus on that. Choose your words wisely -- dont write anything that might offend her, she will move on to the next message. The other girls have a point, a pretty girl is tired of hearing how pretty she is and wants someone to notice her, she wants to be viewed as different and more special than all the other girls (unless she's insecure and she's on the site for attention, but you dont want that girl anyway).

Good luck to you!
 
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I was a very, very hard person to get the attention of when I was dating. I got too much attention I didn't want or need and it made me a harsh mistress to please. When I made a dating profile, I made sure they had plenty of conversation material from music to games to career to whatever. My rule of thumb was if the first few compliments that came in my direction was on my physical appearance or attributes, the guy was a slug and permanently off the list. If my appearance came up at all in the first few exchanges, he was off the list. That was also my rule in person with guys who didn't have a convenient list of interests to read up on. If they made any remarks about how I looked, no matter how flattering any other female would find it, they were off the list. I had the same rule about sex, if they started talking about their bedroom habits or attributes, or started bugging me about mine, not only where they off the list, I would begin to criticise every last little detail they told me and how they proved they didn't know crap about dating or sex. I think it was a few weeks after we started dating before my last boyfriend came out and said I was pretty, and before we even started dating he was telling me how impressed he was with my math skills and general performance with homework, so guess who I didn't run off? Him. We've been together over four years.
 
Totally agree with AsheSkler above and adding to it, if you DONT mention her looks and you move on to dating… she will start wondering how attracted you are to her … and that will keep her intrigued, wondering. When you finally tell her how beautiful you think she is, she will melt like butter.
 
I agree with the others here, it's obvious why the one that got a response was successful when the others weren't. Not only was it the only one not focused of appearance, it's the only one which indicates that you are an interesting person and has a note of humour.

As for your questions: 1. Yes! Generally if you don't find someone attractive you won't bother messaging them, so there is an unspoken assumption of aesthetic appreciation when you send a message. Fixating on their appearance just comes across a shallow and a little arrogant in my opinion.
2. It depends on the women *shrug*

My advise would be:
Give some information of yourself in your message. The "5 random facts" thing is an excellent idea, I assume the woman had asked for them in the example you gave, but you could use the idea in other messages, and maybe ask for 5 in return. It gives an opportunity to show that you are interesting and imaginative, and prompts a response.
Try to include some humour.
If there is a specific thing about their appearance that you like maybe mention it, such as an amazing smile, or beautiful eyes but keep it tasteful,don't make it the main point of the message and don't make it cheesy.

I agree so much with this post. Asking for 5 random facts in response is a great idea! It's fun, provides the person with a bit of freedom and total choice regarding what information she would like to provide, and shows that you want to begin to get to know her in whatever way she feels comfortable.
 
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Wow, I don't think I could have asked for a better answer Plumeria . No you didn't offend me at all, you told me exactly what I needed to hear and the fact that it's coming from an NT female claiming to (in all modesty) be a looker with credentials does make it all the more valid. I knew that not all of my messages were as good as I wanted them to be but at least you've recognized (of the few samples I posted) that some were, though clearly I need to be stricter with wording, which could be tricky. And AsheSkyler you've just given me things which (from memory) has not been mentioned enough or as clearly. I couldn't help but compliment in part because I'm a good natured person who likes to, but also because I thought you needed to make a girl feel good about herself (but you're saying that these compliments come after the intentions/trust are clearly established). One thing I worry about though is that (for myself anyway) confidence can come across as arrogance....I didn't think saying anything to imply I'd presume I'd get a response would come off well (though I have heard plenty of times that confidence sells you) I'll give it a try.
1) What (without insisting you be too specific) could some of the expectations be or the girls saying very little and asking the guy to simply ask (here is where I come apart because you still need to stand out and you've now successfully dissuaded me away from mentioning or at least focusing on physical attributes).?

2) Without making it out as if I'm trying to get you to do all the work for me then or to try to try getting you to pander to my ego etc, as a profile pic (though naturally there are others I could consider) is this the right kind of picture?

The problem I must confess with potentially having aspergers or just these similar difficulties with understanding relationships, dating women etc is that sadly (or thankfully perhaps) it takes this kinda help to change me and get me more intune with people I otherwise cannot find this out myself from first-hand.
 
1) What (without insisting you be too specific) could some of the expectations be of the girls saying very little and asking the guy to simply ask (here is where I come apart because you still need to stand out and you've now successfully dissuaded me away from mentioning or at least focusing on physical attributes).?

If they do not have a profile, what would interest me is something along the lines of you're first line "Hello, nice profile pic, it's nice to know that girls like you can still stand out even when there's such as massive choice on here. I noticed you don't have much written in your profile and I would be interested in knowing about you… (then ask things that can help determine if you have things in common). What is something you wished someone knew about you, beyond your attractive appearance? That's the person I'd really like to know! I hope to hear back from you, but if not, good luck!" Something like that, you get the picture.

2)Without making it out as if I'm trying to get you to do all the work for me then or to try to try getting you to pander to my ego etc, as a profile pic (though naturally there are others I could consider) is this the right kind of picture?

Yes, I think your picture is perfect for a dating website, you're smiling, its not one of those bathroom mirror pics and you look like a nice guy.
 
Yes, I think your picture is perfect for a dating website, you're smiling, its not one of those bathroom mirror pics and you look like a nice guy.

:D That hint of red below my right eye in my profile pic (my right, not your lol) is me blushing at what you said Plumeria

One more question/statement then (in this post anyway) to follow on from this; Given that most guys (me being no different, but still selective within reason) are advised or choose to send out 10's and 10's (even a hundred or more messages) I'd be fairly reluctant to do anything along the lines of just copying and pasting an entire message but I guess perhaps if it was only part of the message with the rest made unique to the girl I'm sending the message to then perhaps that'd help work around the huge time constraints individualizing every message in it's entirety to every girl without anything written in her profile, given that you wanna open the field of opportunities as wide as possible....right?:emojiconfused:
 
Best of luck to you, Hopeless. I would never even venture into a place as fraught with the dangers of misunderstandings, accidentally offending someone, coming across wrong, etc. etc. as a dating site. You're a braver man than I.

All this advice is great, and what a caring group, very interesting to read.
 

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