Are people on the spectrum capable of lying or manipulating?

[jamie5136]

This is very stupid and/or offensive question I am sure, and this is a follow-up to a post I made yesterday (I appreciate all the feedback, by the way), but as I reflect on my lost friendship (online) with a guy on the spectrum (I am an NT), I am wondering if this 2 year situation we had that involved friendship, sexual activities (online only) and the mentioning of love were just a way for him to cure his boredom. He has been on a 2 year break from college for surgery, a death of a family member and his own personal struggles. This is about the time we met. I always wondered why he did not date women in his hometown and only talked to me, an older woman.

Anyway...

Every time I said I was meeting with another male friend online, he would say he wanted to visit me instead and live with me, take care of me, etc. I told him the age difference was too vast and he said he did not care. So, I actually believed him and fell head over heels. One of the reasons I like people on the spectrum is that they seem to be super honest and straightforward, and logical to a fault.

Is it possible that he was just being manipulative to keep me interested and into him only? Is it possible that he was lying?

I ended our friendship as I can't remain friends with someone who I had love for. He does not understand this. He thinks because he came to the realization from a Google search and talking to friends, that a relationship with someone my age was impossible, that everything should go back to being buddy, buddy.

Again, from the advise I got on here, I ended the friendship, but I do have to wonder if he was manipulating me, at least partially for his own sexual gain and for company. I never thought it was possible for those on the AS to be manipulative like this. Sorry again if I am not clear. I have a central nervous system issue due to medications.

 

[Pats]

Don't know about all, but I stay in trouble because I'm too honest. There's way more to him that he's not telling and I hope you are very cautious. VERY cautious. I would stay away from him and cut off all contact. He just sounds dangerous.

 

[jamie5136]

Don't know about all, but I stay in trouble because I'm too honest. There's way more to him that he's not telling and I hope you are very cautious. VERY cautious. I would stay away from him and cut off all contact. He just sounds dangerous.

Really? Dangerous? I never would have thought this. He does get really mad at times and says awful things that really stick, and he's been depressed and attempted to leave this earth a few times, but I never thought of him as dangerous. He's had a few short-term girlfriends and tons of friends in RL, but I don't know. I have such a trust for people and I never got that dangerous vibe. What am I missing?

 

[Pats]

He is trying to manipulate you into seeing him. He is not being honest - has too many reasons for everything. And why is he trying so hard to keep you talking to him as a friend or otherwise? Too many questionable things that I wouldn't trust. Maybe not worried about finding your body in the woods somewhere (though you never know), but still something is just not right about this guy.

 

[jamie5136]

He is trying to manipulate you into seeing him. He is not being honest - has too many reasons for everything. And why is he trying so hard to keep you talking to him as a friend or otherwise? Too many questionable things that I wouldn't trust. Maybe not worried about finding your body in the woods somewhere (though you never know), but still something is just not right about this guy.

He's got many friends, but I think it's because he's just lonely and maybe a bit insecure. We are not in the same state, so I don't think this is going to happen.

 

[Catana]

Most people on the spectrum are just as capable of lying and manipulation as anyone else. You let yourself be blindsided by a stereotype. But it doesn't matter what he is or isn't doing, or what his motivation is, what's important is whether you are comfortable with the relationship.

 

[jamie5136]

Most people on the spectrum are just as capable of lying and manipulation as anyone else. You let yourself be blindsided by a stereotype. But it doesn't matter what he is or isn't doing, or what his motivation is, what's important is whether you are comfortable with the relationship.

Ok, I did not know this. That's new. I read over in the relationship forums that people on the AS are loyal and honest and typically can't lie. I don't think this is always the case. When I question him about him being a bad person who could possibly manipulate or lie, he becomes enraged. He says, "So, you think I am a bad person?" I say, "No, but I do feel manipulated a bit." And, when I asked to speak to him to clear things up, he said he was tired and went offline. He does this often. He says he gets stressed out and can't deal with it. Anyway, ok.

 

[Ezra]

Ok, I did not know this. That's new. I read over in the relationship forums that people on the AS are loyal and honest and typically can't lie. I don't think this is always the case. When I question him about him being a bad person who could possibly manipulate or lie, he becomes enraged. He says, "So, you think I am a bad person?" I say, "No, but I do feel manipulated a bit." And, when I asked to speak to him to clear things up, he said he was tired and went offline. He does this often. He says he gets stressed out and can't deal with it. Anyway, ok.

Some people on the spectrum don't lie and can't manipulate. Some people on the spectrum also can't do much of anything and have to be looked after 24/7. If you've met one autistic person, you have met them all one autistic person. Everyone has to be viewed on a case by case basis.

 

[OkRad]

Sometimes are person on the Spectrum lets down their guard and an NT will not understand the thought process. There is a good chance he is NOT manipulating you, but having to dodge so much to preserve his sanity and his rituals and his personal ways which may be way off the chart. He might be a great person, but have a side you cannot see. If you see it, it will be with NT eyes and you may not understand.

Example. I knew an Aspie man who was brilliant and kind and all that. He perfected his NT presentation very well. But when he would go home, he would unravel. Drink and all sorts of things and house a disaster. Well, an NT could not see past it. I was his friend and honestly DID NOT NOTICE the mess and chaos. I was too busy hearing his brilliant ideas to notice that there was crap all over. I did not care because I am not NT.

This is NOT TO SAY Aspies are messy! I am saying HIS ASpieness was such he ignored all things that did not have to do with work and thinking. Period. I got that easy. But an NT? WOuld take years to try to first undestand him and then try to cure him and he would feel worse and worse.

 

[Major Tom]

Lol.... OF COURSE! Why wouldn't we be?

 

[SusanLR]

I think what you are thinking about Aspies being unable to lie is a stereotypical belief.
It probably comes from not liking lies or being lied to.
Stating what we think, even if it's blunt usually also.
I know I'm not great in the tactful department.
And,yes, we do tend to want order and logic in a given situtation.
But, to think we are somehow incapable of lies would mean something in the human psyche I've never heard of.

People are all like a many faceted diamond.
You see one side perhaps more dominately, but, turn it and there are many more faces.

 

[Progster]

To answer the question as to whether people on the spectrum are capable of lying and manipulation, yes, generally they are. Whether they choose to do so or not is a different question. I don't feel comfortable lying and it's not in my nature, but I can do it and will do it if I think it is necessary to my survival. Manipulatiing is more tricky, it requires good social skills and understanding, not something that comes naturally to me.

 

[WildCat]

There was a thread similar to this:

https://www.autismforums.com/threads/aspergers-and-manipulation.26730/

Short answer to your question: yes. Doesn't mean everyone on the spectrum does it, but yes.

Forget what you read about or see on TV, take it person by person and go from there.

 

[Sloth]

Hello Jamie, I don't find the question stupid or offensive at all. Thanks for asking!

Just as previous posters have said, in answer to your title question: yes. I can say, for example, that I am definitely capable but almost never do, primarily because I lack a lot of the motivations that people might have for lying because I don't see the world in that way.

There is a definite tendency by people on the Spectrum to be honest and non-judgmental, one of the many great qualities they might have. It is probably one of the first things that shows up if you look up positive qualities of people on the Spectrum. That being said, it's obviously wrong to generalize and think every single one of us is like that.

If I recall correctly, there have been multiple posts of people where they say the ASD person said that age gap didn't matter to them. This seems to me very understandable and believable behavior based on my own beliefs and what I understand of thought processes of people on the Spectrum. However, like you have also noted, people on the Spectrum can have severely different views on what a relationship means and tend to be super logical rather than emotional in their approach (because we often might have problems understanding our/other's emotions). What it sounds like is he got logically convinced that the relationship isn't appropriate, and that might trump any emotional feelings he has on the subject.

Maybe it's just because I tend to have an unreasonably positive view of others, but my first impression would not be to say he was being purposefully manipulative. Then again, as Ezra has said, every person on the Spectrum is different, so we can't really know.

 

[Mr Allen]

This is very stupid and/or offensive question I am sure, and this is a follow-up to a post I made yesterday (I appreciate all the feedback, by the way), but as I reflect on my lost friendship (online) with a guy on the spectrum (I am an NT), I am wondering if this 2 year situation we had that involved friendship, sexual activities (online only) and the mentioning of love were just a way for him to cure his boredom. He has been on a 2 year break from college for surgery, a death of a family member and his own personal struggles. This is about the time we met. I always wondered why he did not date women in his hometown and only talked to me, an older woman.

Anyway...

Every time I said I was meeting with another male friend online, he would say he wanted to visit me instead and live with me, take care of me, etc. I told him the age difference was too vast and he said he did not care. So, I actually believed him and fell head over heels. One of the reasons I like people on the spectrum is that they seem to be super honest and straightforward, and logical to a fault.

Is it possible that he was just being manipulative to keep me interested and into him only? Is it possible that he was lying?

I ended our friendship as I can't remain friends with someone who I had love for. He does not understand this. He thinks because he came to the realization from a Google search and talking to friends, that a relationship with someone my age was impossible, that everything should go back to being buddy, buddy.

Again, from the advise I got on here, I ended the friendship, but I do have to wonder if he was manipulating me, at least partially for his own sexual gain and for company. I never thought it was possible for those on the AS to be manipulative like this. Sorry again if I am not clear. I have a central nervous system issue due to medications.

If you get randoms online saying they want to live with you, no, no, and did I mention, NO?! Bad idea.

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

Ok, I did not know this. That's new. I read over in the relationship forums that people on the AS are loyal and honest and typically can't lie. I don't think this is always the case. When I question him about him being a bad person who could possibly manipulate or lie, he becomes enraged. He says, "So, you think I am a bad person?" I say, "No, but I do feel manipulated a bit." And, when I asked to speak to him to clear things up, he said he was tired and went offline. He does this often. He says he gets stressed out and can't deal with it. Anyway, ok.

Loyal to a fault I can accept. But really we are just like other people when it comes to the truth. Everyone has the potential to be deceptive and lies one way or another from time to time or often. It's a normal human attribute to attempt to manipulate. We call those who are good at it "successful".

Lying is a sensitive topic, because many people like to fashion themselves as 100% honest. These are generally the people that lie even to themselves.

 

[AO1501]

It seems to me that being truthful and manipulative are not mutually exclusive, so there is no reason to believe that a typical Aspie is not capable of being manipulative because they are also typically honest.

Nor is there anything that would specifically suggest that manipulative behaviours are necessarily intentional, or that the person responsible is necessarily aware of the implication and impact of their behaviour.

As such, Aspies broadly are capable of being manipulative, commonly I would think because absent truly viable social skills, manipulative behaviours may be the only way some can actually get what they want or need from others.

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

It seems to me that being truthful and manipulative are not mutually exclusive.

This is absolutely true. Manipulation is not mutually exclusive with undesired consequences either. (For an extreme example think about a parent's typical interaction with their child)

Manipulation is simply a byproduct of human interaction. Every human action that involves interested parties involves both parties attempting to conform the situation to their own sensibilities and needs. This does not involve any dishonesty on the part of either.

In the situation presented in this thread I would be willing to bet there has been a fair amount of manipulation on both sides. This does not condemn either one. If neither was looking to get anything out of the other there would be no purpose for the relationship. There is no reason to doubt that he does want to move to be close to her in certain moments and in others he understands the practical impossibility of such an action. The dichotomy implicit in the conflicting emotions does not rule out the honesty of the former.

He could very well feel manipulated when she tells him that she's lonely. She would likely just consider this an open and honest declaration. However, the effect on the emotions of another person when you say that to them is to invest emotionally in their own response to it. In other words, he may begin feeling responsible for your feelings of loneliness.

 

[Nihil]

Of course we are. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves.

 

[Mr Allen]

I'm generally too honest for my own good sometimes, like most times I apply for a job, the first thing I do is declare that I'm a disabled Aspie consequently they bin my application!