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Alternatives to ABA

Outsider

Active Member
I have read several threads covering the ABA subject, and it became clear to me that the majority of participants have a negative opinion about the treatment.

My autistic brother was subjected to the ABA treatment in the past and it had a neutral effect on him – the technique neither helped nor hurt him.

Are there valuable alternatives to ABA? I haven’t heard about them.
 
Here's mine

1. Don't take belongings away when there is no reason to punish or invoke disciplinary action

2. Don't just automatically assume someone is lying when they try to explain themselves

3. Hear them out

4. DON'T. TREAT. AN AUTISTIC PERSON. LIKE. A. CHILD.

This is not directed towards anyone in particular, I am just writing my thought process about ABA. It put me through a lot of emotional hell because it was done the wrong way with me. (If you recall my previous ramblings about my uncle and aunt you'll know what I'm talking about.)
 
It put me through a lot of emotional hell because it was done the wrong way with me.
I think this is the core of the problem. It was done the wrong way. Within the context of education, HOW it is done is far more important than WHAT was taught.

1. There needs to be a fundamental understanding of how that child's autism presents in terms of how they process information. You have to individualize the teaching method to the child. You cannot run off of a "script" and expect good results.

2. The reward system in the autistic brain is different than a neurotypicals. This idea of the "carrot or the stick" may work for neurotypicals, but not us. Again, you need to individualize this to the child.

3. How autistics typically communicate is (1) I express my thoughts to you, and you are not allowed to interrupt, and (2) I shut up and listen to you without interrupting. Which is different than how two neurotypicals communicate which is more like a tennis match with the conversation being batted back and forth continuously.

4. Intelligent, autistic children can certainly learn all manner of skills, and at a very early age, but the instructors need to get out of their way by allowing the child to process it all in their own way, as opposed to the instructors getting frustrated when the child is unable to learn by some preconceived method.

5. Teach them life skills and how to manage their autism but also allow them to be who they are. Otherwise, all you are doing is teaching them how to hide who they are. Masking. What you don't want is this underlying message that "you are not allowed to be you", that "who you are is not acceptable". Imagine the damage that can be done to a kid.
 
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Are there valuable alternatives to ABA?
That would depend on the purpose.

A quick internet search suggests:
The purpose of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) is to:

1. Improve social skills by using interventions based on principles of learning theory.
2. Increase positive behaviors and decrease negative behaviors in individuals with autism and other developmental disorders.
3. Help individuals learn and manage behaviors for a safer and more fulfilling life.

I believe "alternative methods" that could serve the same purpose would look more like a constellation of support over a long period of time. There is no 1:1 substitution for ABA therapy.

Achieving goals like improving social skills, decreasing negative behaviors, and leading a safer and more fulfilling life can only truly be achieved when the autistic person is in a supportive, understanding, and nurturing environment. Firstly, that environment will look a little different for each person and so a blanket approach is likely to be detrimental to some.

Some ideas of things that would help achieve the same goals:

- Autistic people need a chance to learn that they may operate differently and face different challenges than others without feeling like there is something inherently wrong with them that needs to be fixed. Working with a social worker practicing the Strengths Based Approach may help an autistic child foster self esteem, learn to self soothe, and acquire skills like flexibility and resilience that can help them manage some of their challenges.

Strengths Based Approach

- Another idea is to offer education, training, and support to the parents of autistic children. Parents need to be well informed about the challenges that autism can present and the most useful ways to help autistic children adapt to the world. Parents may also benefit from support from other parents of autistic children. Helping parents acquire the resources they need to be the best teachers of and advocates for their children could have a positive impact on the whole family.

- School counselors could help autistic children learn coping skills and work with the school to make sure they have appropriate resources and education for the teachers. Schools could be adapted to be more autistic friendly where sensory time outs, calming rooms to take a break, and the use of adaptive equipment are all a normal parts of the school culture.



One of the problems with ABA is that the approach fails to consider the individual challenges that an autistic person will face over a lifetime and tends more to be used as a curative treatment for certain autistic traits. It is essentially a tool of assimilation in my opinion.

Instead of teaching autistic people how to be their best selves, ABA attempts to teach autistic people to change everything that they are so that they can fit in to a more narrow notion of normal. Autistic adults are more than welcome to take this approach, but in the formative years, I think it is much more important for children to go through a process of self discovery than having their first messages be that they are disordered and in need of fixing.
 
I haven't had much experience around aba besides my autistic nephew having been through it. In college now, he says it made him feel very different from other kids
Like he didn't feel different enough as it was. He experience it in very negative ways. The other time I saw aba being practiced, at my job--the woman aba practitioner was working with a 4 year old on eye contact and she kept putting on these huge glasses with googly eyes, trying to get him to look her in the eyes. The poor kid just seemed really confused by it all. It was before I knew anything about aba but even without knowing about the practice seemed terribly intrusive.
 
My brother had gone through the ABA training during his teenage years. He is an adult now, and I was thinking about alternatives to ABA for adults, who are well into their 30s. I assumed that ABA is also used for grownups, but now I'm not so sure about that.
 
I think this is the core of the problem. It was done the wrong way. Within the context of education, HOW it is done is far more important than WHAT was taught.

1. There needs to be a fundamental understanding of how that child's autism presents in terms of how they process information. You have to individualize the teaching method to the child. You cannot run off of a "script" and expect good results.

2. The reward system in the autistic brain is different than a neurotypicals. This idea of the "carrot or the stick" may work for neurotypicals, but not us. Again, you need to individualize this to the child.

3. How autistics typically communicate is (1) I express my thoughts to you, and you are not allowed to interrupt, and (2) I shut up and listen to you without interrupting. Which is different than how two neurotypicals communicate which is more like a tennis match with the conversation being batted back and forth continuously.

4. Intelligent, autistic children can certainly learn all manner of skills, and at a very early age, but the instructors need to get out of their way by allowing the child to process it all in their own way, as opposed to the instructors getting frustrated when the child is unable to learn by some preconceived method.

5. Teach them life skills and how to manage their autism but also allow them to be who they are. Otherwise, all you are doing is teaching them how to hide who they are. Masking. What you don't want is this underlying message that "you are not allowed to be you", that "who you are is not acceptable". Imagine the damage that can be done to a kid.
Regarding 1 -- i fully agree with the statement about the individualization of teaching methods. Unfortunately, there is no coherent theory of information processing for all population groups, including autistic people. There are competing theories that often contradict one another.
Regarding 2 -- you might be surprised by this remark, but NTs don't like being interrupted either. People seldom interrupt me. However, some NT individuals shy away from confrontation, which may give an impression that they don't mind being interrupted.
Regarding 3 -- I don't have an opinion on this topic because I don't have an experience of learning communication skills.
Regarding 4 -- masking is not good for everyone. For an autistic person it causes an unnecessary pain. For NTs like myself the knowledge that a person is autistic is a strong motivation to adjust to his/her behavior rather than acting in a retaliatory manner. Usually I am pretty good in identifying autistic persons and treating them with respect they deserve, Unfortunately, I was wrong on couple of occasions, and I regret that.
 
Regarding 1 -- i fully agree with the statement about the individualization of teaching methods. Unfortunately, there is no coherent theory of information processing for all population groups, including autistic people. There are competing theories that often contradict one another.
Regarding 2 -- you might be surprised by this remark, but NTs don't like being interrupted either. People seldom interrupt me. However, some NT individuals shy away from confrontation, which may give an impression that they don't mind being interrupted.
Regarding 3 -- I don't have an opinion on this topic because I don't have an experience of learning communication skills.
Regarding 4 -- masking is not good for everyone. For an autistic person it causes an unnecessary pain. For NTs like myself the knowledge that a person is autistic is a strong motivation to adjust to his/her behavior rather than acting in a retaliatory manner. Usually I am pretty good in identifying autistic persons and treating them with respect they deserve, Unfortunately, I was wrong on couple of occasions, and I regret that.
Point 1: Agree. This comes under the category of "know thy student". I have to do this all the time as an educator.
Point 2 and 3: Agree with that, especially in the situation where there is conflict. However, more to my point, neurotypical communication is often characterized by this rather quick banter back and forth (it's not considered interrupting) that many autistics, due to their processing delays (even milliseconds) really struggle with. If an autistic and a neurotypical are in a conversation, the neurotypical will often dominate the conversation, or out of habit, wish to banter back and forth, which the autistic person might consider it an interruption in their flow of thought and get frustrated. That's been my experience. What I've witnessed between 2 autistics in a conversation is one would complete a thought, then the other would speak, allowing time in between turns. It's a lot easier to follow.
Point 4: Agree.
 
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If an autistic and a neurotypical are in a conversation, the neurotypical will often dominate the conversation, or out of habit wish to banter back and forth, which the autistic person might consider an interruption in their flow of thought and get frustrated. That's been my experience. What I've witnessed between 2 autistics in a conversation is one would complete a thought, then the other would speak, allowing time in between turns. It's a lot easier to follow.
This describes my experience precisely.
 
However, more to my point, neurotypical communication is often characterized by this rather quick banter back and forth (it's not considered interrupting) that many autistics, due to their processing delays (even milliseconds) really struggle with. If an autistic and a neurotypical are in a conversation, the neurotypical will often dominate the conversation, or out of habit wish to banter back and forth, which the autistic person might consider an interruption in their flow of thought and get frustrated. That's been my experience.
Brilliant assessment.
This has been my experience, also.
 
Point 1: Agree. This comes under the category of "know thy student". I have to do this all the time as an educator.
Point 2 and 3: Agree with that, especially in the situation where there is conflict. However, more to my point, neurotypical communication is often characterized by this rather quick banter back and forth (it's not considered interrupting) that many autistics, due to their processing delays (even milliseconds) really struggle with. If an autistic and a neurotypical are in a conversation, the neurotypical will often dominate the conversation, or out of habit, wish to banter back and forth, which the autistic person might consider it an interruption in their flow of thought and get frustrated. That's been my experience. What I've witnessed between 2 autistics in a conversation is one would complete a thought, then the other would speak, allowing time in between turns. It's a lot easier to follow.
Point 4: Agree.


As a scientifically oriented person, I usually don’t participate in banter unless collocutors are talking about the weather and natural disasters (in scientific circles banter is considered a low-level activity reserved for poorly educated people).

I have had conversations with autistic people about more serious topics, and didn’t notice any difference between their responses and responses of NTs.

As for the processing delays, there is no data supporting the hypothesis of their existence in autistic people. Some autistic individuals may be slow to respond but this might be due to their desire to come up with a better presentation of their ideas, not to slow thinking processes.

It wouldn’t be the first time when I run into unproven hypotheses that have a little to do with the reality (this contention applies to many fields, not just to research in autism).

Not all scientists are born equal, so to speak; while some researchers make valuable contributions to various branches of science, their antipodes waste tons of paper pushing forward their stillborn brainchild.
 
I am proof of this happening. :cool:
Unlike psychologists and psychiatrists, I think in terms of measurable quantities such as temperature, electric currents, weight, mass, etc.

To me a proof that autistic persons have a slower information processing time than NTs would be a direct comparison of production of electric currents accompanying thought processes in these two groups of subjects (“subject” is not a derogatory term, it is used in reference to an experiment participants). So far, I haven’t read about any experiments in this field. Apparently, modern technology is not up to the task; it would take some time until new measurement devices come into play.

In general, psychologists and psychiatrists follow a philosophical doctrine called Idealism; I follow a different doctrine, Positivism (also know as Empiricism). My views on brain processes are in agreement with the doctrine of Positivism.
 
As for the processing delays, there is no data supporting the hypothesis of their existence in autistic people. Some autistic individuals may be slow to respond but this might be due to their desire to come up with a better presentation of their ideas, not to slow thinking processes.…

Unlike psychologists and psychiatrists, I think in terms of measurable quantities such as temperature, electric currents, weight, mass, etc.
You could certainly measure the time it takes me to process information as compared to my neurotypical brother. Of course, then you’d only have a singular case study. But @Neonatal RRT described my experience precisely.

I think there would be a large base of anecdotal evidence here on the forum that there is certainly a processing delay. The empirical research is something I know less about. But the lived experience suggests processing delay.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the thought processes of autistic people are flawed. To me it just seems like we are processing a whole lot of information at once and it takes time.
 
As a scientifically oriented person, I usually don’t participate in banter unless collocutors are talking about the weather and natural disasters (in scientific circles banter is considered a low-level activity reserved for poorly educated people).

I have had conversations with autistic people about more serious topics, and didn’t notice any difference between their responses and responses of NTs.

As for the processing delays, there is no data supporting the hypothesis of their existence in autistic people. Some autistic individuals may be slow to respond but this might be due to their desire to come up with a better presentation of their ideas, not to slow thinking processes.

It wouldn’t be the first time when I run into unproven hypotheses that have a little to do with the reality (this contention applies to many fields, not just to research in autism).

Not all scientists are born equal, so to speak; while some researchers make valuable contributions to various branches of science, their antipodes waste tons of paper pushing forward their stillborn brainchild.
You bring up two, independent thoughts. (1) The topic of auditory processing delays is well-studied. If you do a general Google Scholar search for scientific articles on the topic of "autism and auditory processing delays" you will find many articles on the topic. (2) Your second statement may be true in that, in an attempt to come up with a well-thought out response, there is a delay. In a one-on-one conversation this is less apparent, as one is often allowed time to respond. However, add in a third person to the conversation, and the quick back and forth banter that neurotypicals often engage in often leaves us behind and we end up not knowing when to jump in and out of the conversation without it becoming awkward or disruptive to the flow. This happens to me more often than not and is why I often have to leave the conversation. Furthermore, in order to verbalize my well-thought out statement, I have to revisit a topic after the conversation has moved on to something else, which, again, is disruptive to the flow.

When I suggest there is a processing delay, it's more the fact that myself, and many others are not able to participate in that quick back and forth style of group conversation without being awkward or disruptive to the flow.

Having said that, I clearly experienced this auditory processing delay when interacting with a bank teller a few hours ago. I would tell him one thing, he then repeated the request back with different wording, and I seriously had to pause to take in what he said, not sure that he understood, then I repeated my request as if he wasn't quite understanding. We did this a few times. It was as if we were talking past each other or not having the same conversation. I was like, "What the heck is going on here?" This is just a single example of countless times that I experienced this sort of interaction with people. Phone conversations are terrible, as I often ask people to repeat things.

Even here, in a forum, many of us will have well-thought out posts, which I enjoy immensely. As say, compared to other social media outlets where people will banter back and forth with one or two sentence responses.

Google Search: "Autism, auditory processing delays, and conversation skills":

AI Overview

Learn more

Auditory processing delays are commonly experienced by individuals with autism, which can significantly impact their conversation skills by making it difficult to understand spoken language, particularly in noisy environments, leading to challenges in following conversations, interpreting social cues, and effectively communicating their own thoughts and needs.

Key points about autism, auditory processing delays, and conversation skills:
  • Difficulty with sound processing:
    People with autism often struggle to filter out background noise, making it hard to focus on a single speaker in a conversation, which can lead to misunderstandings and missed information.

  • Challenges with interpreting verbal cues:
    Auditory processing delays can hinder the ability to pick up on subtle nuances in tone of voice, which are crucial for understanding social cues and emotional states in conversation.

  • Impact on language comprehension:
    Difficulty processing sounds can lead to challenges in understanding the meaning of words and sentences, even when the words themselves are heard clearly.

  • Social communication challenges:
    These combined factors can create significant difficulties in engaging in reciprocal conversation, maintaining eye contact, and responding appropriately to social cues.

Common signs of auditory processing delays in autistic individuals:
  • Covering ears in noisy environments
  • Difficulty following instructions or conversations with multiple speakers
  • Misinterpreting what is being said, even in quiet settings
  • Appearing distracted or not responding when spoken to
  • Sensitivity to certain sounds

How to support communication for individuals with autism and auditory processing delays:
  • Speak clearly and slowly: Use simple language and enunciate words carefully.

  • Minimize background noise: Find quiet spaces to converse or use noise-cancelling headphones when necessary.

  • Use visual aids: Incorporate visual cues like facial expressions, gestures, or written prompts to enhance understanding

  • Repeat key information: Reiterate important points to ensure comprehension

  • Provide time to process: Give the person time to think before responding

  • Check for understanding: Regularly ask if they are following the conversation and clarify any confusion

Professional support:
  • Speech therapy:
    Specialized speech therapy can help individuals with auditory processing challenges develop strategies to improve their listening skills and communication abilities.

  • Occupational therapy:
    Sensory integration therapy can address sensory sensitivities related to sound

  • Behavioral interventions:
    Strategies to manage anxiety and improve focus in social situations can be beneficial
 
Unlike psychologists and psychiatrists, I think in terms of measurable quantities such as temperature, electric currents, weight, mass, etc.

To me a proof that autistic persons have a slower information processing time than NTs would be a direct comparison of production of electric currents accompanying thought processes in these two groups of subjects (“subject” is not a derogatory term, it is used in reference to an experiment participants). So far, I haven’t read about any experiments in this field. Apparently, modern technology is not up to the task; it would take some time until new measurement devices come into play.

In general, psychologists and psychiatrists follow a philosophical doctrine called Idealism; I follow a different doctrine, Positivism (also know as Empiricism). My views on brain processes are in agreement with the doctrine of Positivism.
Personal experience has its place, particularly when the person doing the self-observing has set a high priority on credibility, critical thinking skills, and personal integrity.
"The Truth is the Truth and has no bias."

Life wisdom is also a significant factor sorting the wheat from the chaff..
Empirical methodology is a good means of scientific validation.

BTW:
Beyond the context we are engaging in here:
Personal experiences, in companionship with research/study, are usually superior to theoretical knowledge alone, all things being equal. :cool:
 
Auditory processing delays are commonly experienced by individuals with autism, which can significantly impact their conversation skills by making it difficult to understand spoken language, particularly in noisy environments, leading to challenges in following conversations, interpreting social cues, and effectively communicating their own thoughts and needs.
If I need to seriously concentrate on what I am reading, say a post on this forum, I need to mute the background TV noise.
Having ADHD is another complicating factor.

Distractions are a major problem for me when assimilating outside information.
There are times when my reasoning ability collapses altogether, particularly in a social time-sensitive situation.
"Information Overload" is often the cause, but not exclusively.

However:
Information already assimilated allows for relatively easy extrapolation of newer concepts, as it would for many ppl.
 
If I need to seriously concentrate on what I am reading, say a post on this forum, I need to mute the background TV noise.
Having ADHD is another complicating factor.

Distractions are a major problem for me when assimilating outside information.
There are times when my reasoning ability collapses altogether, particularly in a social time-sensitive situation.
"Information Overload" is often the cause, but not exclusively.

However:
Information already assimilated allows for relatively easy extrapolation of newer concepts, as it would for many ppl.
When I read a scientific article or a textbook on physics (this is one of my hobbies) I turn the TV off, so I'm not much different from you in this respect.
Fortunately, my reasoning ability never collapses, but this is not true for all NTs. Some NTs cannot deliver a speech in front of a large audience, some cannot make their point clear in a fast developing situation such as making adjustments to a project on the fly, for instance.
Personally, I don't think that the differences between people with ASD1 and NT are not as high as the majority of psychologists suggest. But this is just little me against the psychological establishment.
 

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