A Theory About Introversion, Extroversion, and Autism

[WereBear]

Ran across an intriguing article about it.

Grimes, Cheek, and Norem developed a four-factor model of introversion, dividing it into Social Introversion (prefers solitude to people); Thinking Introversion (reflective and introspective); Anxious Introversion (shy and ruminative); and Inhibited Introversion (resists new experiences).

That's interesting enough, but where Grimes went next in her exploration of introversion is compelling, likely to be controversial, and quite possibly right on the money---research (someday) will tell.

In her master's thesis (read it here) Grimes posits that introversion is not the opposite of extroversion, but that they are two different traits altogether. And she proposes something that has come up here from time to time: That introversion actually is on the autism scale.​

It's quite the thought-provoking article, and I ran across it because my own feeling (and now I know I am not alone in it) was exactly so: both the Highly Sensitive Person theory (which focuses on how the HSP -- I scored high enough to be one -- takes in more sensory information and feels it more ) and the Introversion Theory are based in autism.

Which means autism is both more widespread, and not very understood, than our current science ever dreamed of.

 

[LucyPurrs]

Wow so interesting you posted this- you must have been reading my mind. Have been reading about INFJ and INTJ and wondering if most autistics are one or the other. I'm an INFJ for sure. I feel so very comfortable here, I'm starting to look back and wonder if I could have some AS traits but test out as solidly NT.

 

[LucyPurrs]

Also, I suspect things are far more complicated than they seem, kind of like several universes (personality traits, characteristics) that can co-exist in the same frame. And then throw in the effect of family, environment, life experiences, genetics, physical characteristics (like medical conditions) and yikes, how does one sort it all out?

 

[WereBear]

I feel so very comfortable here, I'm starting to look back and wonder if I could have some AS traits but test out as solidly NT.

Are you a Highly Sensitive Person? Take the quiz.

The HSP designation is professionally recognized. For several years, after scoring high on this test, I thought it explained me. And it did, but not entirely

My diagnostician told me I was a VHFA; and if I had not taken a job that taxed my adaptation abilities at the same time I went through a hellish menopause, I still might not know this about myself. I have been so sick, and so desperate for answers, that I had to figure out my diagnosis myself, and then made it official.

And... still learning. I am too old to have been diagnosed as a child; I was recognized as "gifted" and that satisfied everyone at the time.

 

[Progster]

It's an interesting idea - a very long article so I need more time to read it, but one thing immediately comes to mind: not all autistic people are introverted. Some are quite extroverted - how would the author account for this?

 

[LucyPurrs]

Are you a Highly Sensitive Person? Take the quiz.

The HSP designation is professionally recognized. For several years, after scoring high on this test, I thought it explained me. And it did, but not entirely

My diagnostician told me I was a VHFA; and if I had not taken a job that taxed my adaptation abilities at the same time I went through a hellish menopause, I still might not know this about myself. I have been so sick, and so desperate for answers, that I had to figure out my diagnosis myself, and then made it official.

And... still learning. I am too old to have been diagnosed as a child; I was recognized as "gifted" and that satisfied everyone at the time.

I got a 16. I couldn't answer the last question because I didn't know how I was perceived as a child (shy or not).I think I was extremely shy.

 

[Ambi]

Wow so interesting you posted this- you must have been reading my mind. Have been reading about INFJ and INTJ and wondering if most autistics are one or the other. I'm an INFJ for sure. I feel so very comfortable here, I'm starting to look back and wonder if I could have some AS traits but test out as solidly NT.

I am INFJ

 

[LucyPurrs]

I am INFJ

I found it uncanny how much of the descriptions of INFJ and INTJ were accurate about me and my "aspie" friend. But I think he is actually somewhere in between the two as he is a deeply feeling person, just unable to express it I think due to his EXTREME introversion.

 

[Judge]

But I think he is actually somewhere in between the two as he is a deeply feeling person, just unable to express it I think due to his EXTREME introversion.

This is good!

That you can sense his feelings even if he is unable to project them in a conventional manner.

 

[LucyPurrs]

This is good!

That you can sense his feelings even if he is unable to project them in a conventional manner.

Hope you're right Judge

 

[Chance]

I have read a lot of the thesis and it makes some really good points... Like Progster... I'm not sure how extrovert ASD types tie in with this (however I haven't made it but about half way through so far)... I also wonder about the ratio of Introverts to extrovert in ASD people. How many INFJ's/INTJ's are ASD... and many more comparisons.

I have been tested for all sorts of things during my time with the clinicians who try to figure me out, and how to make LIFE a little easier for me... I am full blow Introvert, INFJ-t (turbulent) according to maybe 5 Briggs Myers test over the years. I have a really good IQ with exceptional critical thinking, geometry, and pattern recognition, yet with some pretty nasty communication issues, and short term memory issues in real life. I believe the tests I was given was Stanford-Binet or WAIS-III. One is boring and long and I hated it, but I scored good on both.

I have never understood the separation or overlaps of ASD, SPD (Sensory Processing Disorder, and ADD (or now inattentive ADHD). I have read lots on it... And asked lots of questions over it, and its always a lot of vague commonalities with very little to fully distinguish much of anything as concrete separations. Some say that SPD is not even in the DSM-V which is also strange to me since its nearly a mirror to ASD in so many ways...

I truly think there are many factors in all sorts of situations and that is often why its such a vast Spectrum of low and high functioning people... Who also overflow into in out of the Spectrum situations as a whole. For instance people can have ADHD, SPD, OCD, and not be on the spectrum, but often many on the spectrum have all of these (as with me)... or one of these, or none of these but other things instead.

Its the vastness that maybe causes most of my confusion... I start digging and suddenly its like looking across some mental great divide, that is so vast, it becomes hard to define as a whole and yet individually we can also look like that same vast great divide.

I do often think that (maybe) lots of Introverts make up a huge part of the Spectrum, but I do know ONE person (my bosses son). He is ASD/ADHD. He is very intelligent and very extroverted. He's a good kid, but very vocal, pays zero attention to his surroundings. He's really outgoing and at times quite annoying (but he cant help it). He has issues about not knowing personal boundaries and gets way to close in my space to talk to me and I kind of get messed up over this... In his case they focus of his ADHD more than anything else it seems. I would never see him on the Spectrum at any level, yet he has a professional diagnosis that says differently???

Lots of questions when ASD goes the other way. I cant seem to relate to the big picture this creates and some of the opposites it seems, because it makes no logic to me. He has zero communication problems that I can see, yet he has repetitive motions pretty bad - that being the only link I can notice at all (which could be Tourettes just as easy).

 

[Chance]

Are you a Highly Sensitive Person? Take the quiz.

The HSP designation is professionally recognized. For several years, after scoring high on this test, I thought it explained me. And it did, but not entirely

My diagnostician told me I was a VHFA; and if I had not taken a job that taxed my adaptation abilities at the same time I went through a hellish menopause, I still might not know this about myself. I have been so sick, and so desperate for answers, that I had to figure out my diagnosis myself, and then made it official.

And... still learning. I am too old to have been diagnosed as a child; I was recognized as "gifted" and that satisfied everyone at the time.

I scored 23... pitiful...

 

[kay]

I got 21.There is no way to really sort through all this. Neurology is too much like cooking. We all get a bunch of different ingredients and then you throw in things like age of the ingredients, quality of the ingredients, quantity of ingredients, and then how is it mixed? chopped? fried? baked? what elevation is it being cooked at? What about humidity? over kneaded? under kneaded? Weird analogy maybe but that's how I look at it. We are Autistic the same way a chocolate layer cake with butter creme frosting and angle food with strawberries and whipped creme are both cakes. And is cheesecake a cake or pie. I say pie. But then there is the issue of cobblers. Some peoples idea of a cobbler is what I would call a pie and what I call cobbler could be called pie-cake. And so on and so on. Does this make any sense to anyone else or just me?????

 

[Chance]

I got 21.There is no way to really sort through all this. Neurology is too much like cooking. We all get a bunch of different ingredients and then you through in things like age of the ingredients, quality of the ingredients, quantity of ingredients, and then how is it mixed? chopped? fried? baked? what elevation is it being cooked at? What about humidity? over kneaded? under kneaded? Weird analogy maybe but that's how I look at it. We are Autistic the same way a chocolate layer cake with butter creme frosting and angle food with strawberries and whipped creme are both cakes. And is cheesecake a cake or pie. I say pie. But then there is the issue of cobblers. Some peoples idea of a cobbler is what I would call a pie and what I call cobbler could be called pie-cake. And so on and so on. Does this make any sense to anyone else or just me?????

Now I'm hungry.... : )

 

[LucyPurrs]

I scored 23... pitiful...

Oh ouch!

 

[LucyPurrs]

I got 21.There is no way to really sort through all this. Neurology is too much like cooking. We all get a bunch of different ingredients and then you throw in things like age of the ingredients, quality of the ingredients, quantity of ingredients, and then how is it mixed? chopped? fried? baked? what elevation is it being cooked at? What about humidity? over kneaded? under kneaded? Weird analogy maybe but that's how I look at it. We are Autistic the same way a chocolate layer cake with butter creme frosting and angle food with strawberries and whipped creme are both cakes. And is cheesecake a cake or pie. I say pie. But then there is the issue of cobblers. Some peoples idea of a cobbler is what I would call a pie and what I call cobbler could be called pie-cake. And so on and so on. Does this make any sense to anyone else or just me?????

Oh Kay, this is brilliant

 

[kay]

Oh Kay, this is brilliant

Thanks, still not sure I make sense.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Thanks, still not sure I make sense.

It makes perfect sense.

Although there was a story about a thief in England who was caught by the cobblers.

Anything can be a euphemism in England.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Now I'm hungry.... : )

Do you need to do an online test, so you know you can eat?

 

[WereBear]

This theory would explain extroverted NDs, because these are two different traits.

I enjoy social occasions, but I also need lots of downtime from them. Me being sick, and only partly recovered, has probably thrown all these tendencies into high, and made them more noticeable.