2E Resources...

[Crossbreed]

There is another diagnostic tool, that I think will help, the GADC.
I've been meaning to hit @Crossbreed up about this.

The GADC

This is the first that I have seen of it. I would still recommend seeking a professional evaluation, because we are not very objective about ourselves.

Professionals who are experienced in ASDs (like those recommended by the Autism Society) or in giftedness (like SENG*) will be the most likely to recognize both conditions.

Newbs can't see past the mutual masking presented by 2Es.

*I found a short list of providers.

 

[sidd851]

The GADC

This is the first that I have seen of it. I would still recommend seeking a professional evaluation, because we are not very objective about ourselves.

Professionals who are experienced in ASDs (like those recommended by the Autism Society) or in giftedness (like SENG*) will be the most likely to recognize both conditions.

Newbs can't see past the mutual masking presented by 2Es.

*I found a short list of providers.

Wait a minute, I thought I was posting in this thread.
Damn.
I'm sorry.

 

[Crossbreed]

Wait a minute, I thought I was posting in this thread.

Feel free. I created it to continue your conversation about 2E.

 

[sidd851]

I'm... seem to be, pretty good at the objectivity part--- which, on cursory glance makes this look like something I'd have to study, for a while. Not nearly so cut and dried, something I'm just discovering, and "dipping my toes in".
I couldn't even have an opinion, at this point.
--
Discouraging, on first look, nothing in PA, on the short-list.
---
@Autistamatic , sorry to have gotten so far afield, here. The right thing would have been to have started a thread--- I'm sorry.
Sometimes my curiosity gets the better of me.

 

[sidd851]

1. What I have thought was kind of cut and dried, is now up in the air on this new information.
   Sprinkle in a 1/4 cup of "through the roof" SPS scores,
   some "blew it out of the water" scores on empathy tests(not, however, the facial, emotional recognition, picture test. Haven't taken or found it, or even looked for it, yet.)
   Add a dash of the visual/audio distortions(snow, etc.,), a pinch of synesthesia, not to mention, a highly developed sense of kinesthesia.
   
   In many ways, it feels as though I've intellectualized or self-taught cognitive empathy, to the point of it's feeling intuitive.
   
   I definitely remember being horrified/dumbfounded at my first day at kindergarten.
   As I've related before, elsewhere, I felt as though everyone there had gone stark, raving mad, like some Star Trek TOS episode.
   I remember having no idea about these "emotions" that were causing such unpredictable, abstract, conflicting interplays between the children, the teachers, everyone.
   Almost like it was my first exposure to personalities, egos.
   So utterly confusing, and yes, even scary.
   
   It turns out that I'm finally learning about myself, at 48, 49 yrs old.
   
   This could take years, if left to myself to fumble about with it.
   
   These are entirely new ways to study the brain and the mind, to me.
   
   I'd call it a rabbithole, but I feel decidedly "Zefram Cochrane-ish", about it , really.
   
   
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2. 
   sidd851If I'm not late, I'm not needed.V.I.P Member
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   Restarted topic at 2E Resources...
   Thank you, I'm a dunce.
   (Why isn't there a dunce-cap emoji?
   I'm going to have to speak to the management.)
   
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   AutistamaticHe's just this guy, you know?V.I.P Member
   I managed to get 3 whole videos out of the way many autistics process cognitive empathy so it can often seem instinctive, if you remember @sidd851
   

 

[sidd851]

For anyone interested, @Nauti .

A Unique Challenge: Sorting Out the Differences Between Giftedness and Asperger’s Disorder

 

[Nauti]

Both those links were interesting and helpful, thanks @sidd851 and @Crossbreed . My youngest son looks very "Gifted" although there's some crossover with the "Aspergers" traits as described; same for myself, my partner, dad etc, but the Aspie traits are far more noticably, especially in my Dad.

My extra X chromosome has mitigated some of the more noticable "awkward" traits, I'm told, but hasn't helped with the feelings associated with social awkwardness and uncomfortability.

I suspect, with more compassionate, attentive and focuesed attention on me and my difficulties and cognitive abilities, as a child, I would have exhibited traits much more like my child, propelling me into the "Gifted" arenas somewhat more than I've been able to exhibit and develop.

My youngest, and previously unmentioned son (other than just above) is home from school today. I gave him a "mental health" day off.

He's super smart, an amazing fact retainer, mathematically minded, a deep thinker and very mature and insightful for his age (he's 13).

I showed him the GADC, because the gifted list is so applicable and asked him if he identified, and he totally relates to everything on it.

I don't know if that was a smart thing to do, but I'm very open and up front with him and it was instinctual to share it with him.

Previously he thought he, and I quote "had a psychopath's brain" because of his lack of empathy (his word's) and I'm much happier if he thinks of himself "gifted" with a touch of Aspergers.

He's actually a good kid and has learnt to socialize amazingly, but is very much an introvert, like his ma.

He wants to be a neuroscientist and study atypical and diverse brains.

 

[sidd851]

Both those links were interesting and helpful, thanks @sidd851 and @Crossbreed . My youngest son looks very "Gifted" although there's some crossover with the "Aspergers" traits as described; same for myself, my partner, dad etc, but the Aspie traits are far more noticably, especially in my Dad.

My extra X chromosome has mitigated some of the more noticable "awkward" traits, I'm told, but hasn't helped with the feelings associated with social awkwardness and uncomfortability.

I suspect, with more compassionate, attentive and focuesed attention on me and my difficulties and cognitive abilities, as a child, I would have exhibited traits much more like my child, propelling me into the "Gifted" arenas somewhat more than I've been able to exhibit and develop.

My youngest, and previously unmentioned son (other than just above) is home from school today. I gave him a "mental health" day off.

He's super smart, an amazing fact retainer, mathematically minded, a deep thinker and very mature and insightful for his age (he's 13).

I showed him the GADC, because the gifted list is so applicable and asked him if he identified, and he totally relates to everything on it.

I don't know if that was a smart thing to do, but I'm very open and up front with him and it was instinctual to share it with him.

Previously he thought he, and I quote "had a psychopath's brain" because of his lack of empathy (his word's) and I'm much happier if he thinks of himself "gifted" with a touch of Aspergers.

He's actually a good kid and has learnt to socialize amazingly, but is very much an introvert, like his ma.

He wants to be a neuroscientist and study atypical and diverse brains.

Sorry to have taken so long, responding.

It is very good that you are straight-forward with your son. There is no good purpose for avoidance or censorship--- you instinctively realize this. His best chance at the most satisfying life possible depends upon understanding--- he is very lucky to have you.
---
I, also, fell down that "psychopath" rabbithole, for a while.
It was my ability to detach, in order to deduce, and then perform, the most appropriate and helpful act*, that made me begin to explore "morality/ethics in psychopathy".
I.E. could a psychopath learn cognitive empathy, develop it, and continue to develop it in a progressive manner.

*That turned out to be more than a rabbithole, but what I learned was that I could not possibly have ASPD.

I am tempered by strict morality and ethics, it is the principle for all interaction, in me.

I am far too deeply the empath.

The answer to my question was inherent in the question itself.
My intent.
It really is that simple.

At any rate, I digress.
---
So many mysteries to unravel.
This is yet another log on my fire.
But perhaps the largest one.

I haven't dug any further yet, but are there any more diagnostic tools such as these?
That may help to disentangle these phenomena?

 

[Clueless in Canada]

[QUOTE=My youngest, and previously unmentioned son (other than just above) is home from school today. I gave him a "mental health" day off.

He's super smart, an amazing fact retainer, mathematically minded, a deep thinker and very mature and insightful for his age (he's 13).

I showed him the GADC, because the gifted list is so applicable and asked him if he identified, and he totally relates to everything on it.

I don't know if that was a smart thing to do, but I'm very open and up front with him and it was instinctual to share it with him.

Previously he thought he, and I quote "had a psychopath's brain" because of his lack of empathy (his word's) and I'm much happier if he thinks of himself "gifted" with a touch of Aspergers.



It interested me to read this as my adult son and I are both undiagnosed aspies possibly a gifted/aspie mix and I recently had to explain carefully to my son why he is not a sociopath. He seems to be reassured, which I am glad of.

 

[Nightingale121]

In many ways, it feels as though I've intellectualized or self-taught cognitive empathy, to the point of it's feeling intuitive.

Because of this I think it is important to evaluate someone's development and take this into consideration if you want to judge things like this.
It is possible to intellectualize cognitive empathy to a certain degree, but this is a more or less conscious learning effort as opposed to it being intuitive right away when the person is younger.
The story about your kindergarten experience illustrates this in my opinion. Back then you hadn't had the self-taught knowledge and skills you have now, and your "natural state" was to be confused about all these emotions and people.

Maybe one can imagine this issue like in the following analogy:
Two young children learn to play the piano (i. e. cognitive empathy and social skills).

Child 1 is autistic.
When child 1 sits in front of the piano, they are confused at first and maybe scared by the complexity of the task and the piano itself (What are all the keys for? Which keys should be played together to make good music? What about music theory and reading sheet music? ...)
Child 1 can practise playing the piano though and learn about music theory. However, it's a rather conscious effort and works via intellectualization rather than intuition.
So after many years the person can be a skilled piano player and it seems as it has always been natural and intuitive. It can actually become intuitive at some point because the person has practised so much that it's ingrained in the person's mind through repetition and learning.

Child 2 is neurotypical.
When child 2 sits in front of the piano, they aren't as confused as child 1. This child might intuitively grasp the concept of the proper chords to play to make music sound good, for example.
Of course the child isn't perfect at playing the piano right from the start either (the social skills of neurotypical children undergo a development, too), but it's way more natural for the child to pick up playing the piano and it takes less effort.

When both children are adults it might be difficult to tell the difference, but if you look at the learning process, you will be able to see the difference in the development history.

Having problems with learning to play the piano doesn't mean that a person doesn't care about piano music though. So having problems with cognitive empathy doesn't automatically mean that the person has low affective empathy as well. The person might only have problems to translate the empathy, so that it can be understood by others. For example, the person might feel empathically sorry for someone else, but can't "play the right song" to show their empathy.

some "blew it out of the water" scores on empathy tests(not, however, the facial, emotional recognition, picture test. Haven't taken or found it, or even looked for it, yet.)

Do you mean this one: Can You Read People's Emotions? ?
Unsurprisingly, there's a thread about this test as well (and I got the link to the actual test from the first post of the thread): Mind In The Eyes Test

By the way, someone posted some articles about giftedness and the 2E topic some time ago:
When Your Child’s Exceptionality is Emotional: Looking Beyond Psychiatric Diagnosis
Another Side of Giftedness
Gifted Children and Adults--Neglected Areas of Practice by James T. Webb, PhD