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Featured 12-year-old with autism arrested for using 'imaginary rifle' in art class, family says

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by AGXStarseed, May 11, 2018.

  1. AGXStarseed

    AGXStarseed Well-Known Member

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    (Not written by me)

    David Sims' family says it was a harmless gesture as he and some other boys in class were talking about BB guns.

    But in the post-Stoneman Douglas world, school officials are on higher alert than ever.

    According to KRIV, Sims, who is autistic, was playing with an "imaginary rifle" in art classMonday. Minutes later, he was being taken out of school in handcuffs by Conroe (Texas) ISD police.

    His art teacher at Bozeman Intermediate School apparently felt threatened by his hand gestures.

    "They just said, 'We don't tolerate that. We take it as a threat,'" David's mother Amy Sims told the station. "A threat? He didn't threaten anyone. He didn't do anything but play."

    She also told KPRC that he was using two hands to show other students how he holds his BB gun before he was "dragged out" through the school's front entrance and "humiliated" in front of others who looked on. She said school district officials told her they would seek harassment charges against her son.

    Conroe ISD spokeswoman Sarah Blakelock told McClatchy that the district would not comment on Sims' specific disciplinary case, but said in a statement that "any actions or statements that are threatening in nature are taken seriously."

    Her statement continues: "Situations involving students with special needs are responded to with consideration for each unique need. Conroe ISD administrators along with the Conroe ISD Police Department do everything possible to make Conroe ISD a safe place for all of our employees and students."

    KRIV reported that David Sims would finish the school year at an alternative placement disciplinary school in the district.

    He was held for about two hours at the Montgomery County Juvenile Detention Center, according to the Montgomery County Courier, before being released to family members.

    David's disciplinary history at school muddies the water even further.

    The Courier reported that in a previous incident, he listed classmates' names and a manner of death for each on a piece of paper. He was admitted to a hospital for an evaluation following that incident but was not deemed a threat to those around him.


    Source: 12-year-old with autism arrested for using 'imaginary rifle' in art class, family says
     
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  2. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It was a hand gesture, how threatening is that?! Jesus wept. Also, the kid is Autistic, he cannot help his behaviour.
     
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  3. Mary Anne

    Mary Anne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    This case mirrors others where children (not autistic) were arrested, suspended etc. One had made a gun out of a folded piece of paper! Schools in the USA have a zero tolerance for guns in schools- even drawing a gun on paper with crayon can get a child in trouble with the law. Zero tolerance.

    I was going to ask WHY this child (or any child for that matter) owns a “B.B. gun”....but then I read that it was “Texas,” and I understand. Texas is a gun rights obsessed state. Historically, Texas was considered the Wild West, and rich with cowboy lore. Texans love guns!

    I ask if having autism, with its sensitivity issues, and melt downs— should give more concern to giving a child a gun- of ANY kind. Do you think the parents were wise in giving their autistic diagnosed child a gun (it does not matter what kind of gun) in the first place? This is the real question to discuss.

    Let’s also reread the last paragraph in the article. This certainly raises red flags to school counselors, and teachers.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  4. Mr Allen

    Mr Allen Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Meh, people (me included) have been saying for years that North America needs DRASTIC overhaul of the Gun ownership laws IMO, but it will NEVER happen, for various reasons.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  5. Mary Anne

    Mary Anne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    No it’s will never happen. We are an extremely divided country. Our political climate is the worst it’s ever been.

    That Ben said, I think it’s extremely irresponsible to give a diagnosed autistic child a B.B. gun, and teach them how to use guns. Obviously this child comes from a family who hunts. The child has two incidents on their record now, relating to death, guns, and seems to not understand the inappropriateness of bringing his family culture to school. This is all on the parents, and not the school’s zero tolerance for weapons (regardless of this hand gesture incidence).

    Hand gestures, paper guns, crayon drawings all seem ridiculous to cause a fuss over. Except that there has been ever increasing mass shootings at schools, and ever increasing violence everywhere. “Zero tolerance” means just that. It’s up to parents to teach what that means before the child goes to school. It’s up to parents to teach their
    Children appropriate behaviors. If a child has challenges and difficulties with cognition, or intellectual difficulties, there is even more of a reason to be careful with what goes on in the home, what is said, etc.

    I am sure the parents in the article are going to start a widely publicized lawsuit, and make it seem like the system is all wrong and damaging to their child. However, it’s the home environment that is giving these ideas of guns, and death to their child.
     
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  6. Sozdatelniza

    Sozdatelniza I spy with my little eye

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    It seems like they are too afraid Sims might become a criminal possessed by using weapons idea.
     
  7. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

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    Thank God they arrested him.

    That kid must've been responsible for the entire film,media, military industrial complex of the last 100 years .

    That kid must've been pure evil.

    Thank goodness they finally addressed it.

    Hope that kid goes home with his trillion dollars of profits from all the industries he heads which are either violent or depict violence and has a good look at himself.

    Thank goodness
     
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  8. Catana

    Catana Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Zero tolerance policies are pure stupidity, mainly because they result in knee-jerk follow-the-rules actions that don't take any account of what's actually going on. But the response here was more reasonable in light of his having been in some trouble before, and the possibility of eventual violence from him. It may be a thin line between behavior that can just be ignored, and behavior that's a warning of potential future danger. This has come up in the case of several school shootings. There's no way to know, without more information, whether this kid is a future murderer, or whether he should be treated like a criminal, or receive serious counseling.

    But to say that he can't help his behavior because he's autistic... I call BS on that. That kind of argument makes sure the public believes that autistics are basically out of control and can't be expected to learn how the world operates. Is that the excuse you use, when you're confronted with your own unacceptable behavior, Rich?
     
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  9. Gritches

    Gritches The Happy Dog V.I.P Member

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    What an intelligent course of action to take. Of course, we know the logical outcome is that this 12 year old autistic child will come to respect the rule of law now that a common thug dragged him out of class and further traumatized and humiliated him.

    That's why I'm a big fan of using the system to traumatize developmentally disabled children; get to them young, make sure they know that there's nobody they can trust, and that the totality of society is aligned against them, not just their "peers".

    Yup, nothing makes for a more well-adjusted adult than a thoroughly traumatized child. No group of people is less likely to commit acts of violence as an adult.

    Sorry Fridge, I just had to pile on.

    In all seriousness, I know we as a society take pride in our ignorance when it comes to mental and emotional well-being, but at what point does it become absurd?
     
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  10. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

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    It was just then.

    Real life is now a pastiche of itself.
     
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  11. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Sort of reminds me of some local stories about public schools' zero-tolerance towards guns relative to free speech on the part of their students.

    One involves a boy who was expelled from school for swearing over the phone to our district's U.S. Congressman in advocating gun control. The school eventually overturned their decision to expel the boy.

    Another involved an expelled student who wore a shirt that depicted a gun and pro-firearm sentiments. His parents have filed a federal lawsuit against the school on the grounds that the boy's constitutional rights were violated.

    You have to wonder at times over the logic of "zero-tolerance" in schools, even considering their inherent exposure to mass murder in present times. How much is too much?

    Reno school district sued over student’s pro-gun T-shirt

    <SIGH> It sure is a different environment from when I was a kid. When we played with many toy guns that often looked like the real thing. Where handling them today whether as a child or an adult could get us killed by police. Though by the age of 11 that was pretty much something I grew out of- as a toy. The use of .17 cal. pellet guns and conventional rifles came a bit later...devices with a muzzle velocity of 760 feet per second. Still deadly.
     
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  12. Mary Anne

    Mary Anne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    There are rules in schools now, about certain colors one cannot wear. If the rival gang wears red, and your gang wears blue, what do you think is happening when a kid in a red hat shows up?

    There are other rules about not wearing hats to school either. If one gang wears their baseball caps backwards and your gang wears them 3/4 to the front....what will happen? You know what- stabbing sand shootings.

    Many US city police departments have whole books just on gang colors, hand signals, logos, and uniforms. Some top cities have upwards of 25 gangs within city limits!

    This is also why schools crack down and have strict regulations.
     
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  13. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah. Colors in the hood. And the people who play for keeps over them. Makes any metaphor over firearms at times appear quite lame. However that which flies in the face of the Bill of Rights still stands being stricken no matter how dire the situation may appear. Yet wearing certain three-piece biker patches can even be confiscated by the federal law enforcement. The "devil being in the details" of such considerations.

    Of course I suppose we aren't likely to see any kids willing to wear clothing in school that can potentially get them killed or arrested as RICO violators as opposed to merely reflect their political views. Yet another exposure in public schools I never had to deal with at least while on campus.

    Indeed, in select instances such zero-tolerance provisions likely save lives.
     
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  14. Mary Anne

    Mary Anne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    A lot of people want to express their political views: Neo Nazis, ku klux klan, Trump supporters, assault rifle lovers, anti immigration, pro-life fanatics (who have endorsed bombing clinics, and shooting doctors) etc etc etc. Of course all these folks all have children who might copy what their parents believe. At what point do we draw lines? Your line might be different than mine. At what point does freedom of speech start to cause mass disruption?
     
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  15. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Our highest courts have long since decided such First Amendment considerations through various landmark decisions over the years. Though not everyone may appreciate them.

    The flashpoint where free speech becomes a crime? That point where such speech or gestures constitute precipitating an "imminent, lawless action" in the eyes of the court.

    Though the benchmark to make such a call has been successively raised over the years with evolving precedents. Resulting in more liberal interpretations of how far extremist viewpoints can be publicized even with a potential threat of bodily injury or tasteless political satire directed towards a public figure.

    From "Schenk v. United States 1919" to "Brandenberg v. Ohio 1969" and "US v. Larry Flynt 1985"
     
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  16. Mary Anne

    Mary Anne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Omg, I know The Larry Flynt case. That caused quite a stir back then. Haha.
     
  17. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Yep. You can be just as nasty and profane as you want if you can justify political satire on a public figure. Which can also sometimes facilitate blurring the line between "fake news" and the real thing. However when it comes to plain libel against a public figure alone, personalities like Carol Burnett can tell you where that might lead. Where "absence of malice" won't necessarily let the press off so easily. But yes, with a political agenda your rights to free speech go quite far these days.

    Maybe too far given the Brandenberg (KKK) decision, and also the National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie 1977. Which effectively ruled that the Nazis had the right of free assembly to march down the streets of a Jewish neighborhood. Where an imminent, lawless action was never substantiated. Ironic given the Nazis wisely chose not to march after all. Where Meir Kahane's Jewish Defense League was seriously planning to murder them all. A threat the Nazis took in deadly earnest.

    Personally what I find most interesting about some of these recent events is the implication that even minors hold such constitutional rights to free speech every bit as can adults.
     
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  18. Mary Anne

    Mary Anne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    OMG, I was there! Skokie, Holocaust survivors, and neo nazis. They were stopped, and went to march around 10 miles south in downtown Chicago’s Grant Park instead. I went to it. There was no riots...very controlled. I am so glad they stopped the nazis marching in Skokie. How horrible. That is the town where the majority of concentration survivors came to live. There is a Holocaust museum in Skokie too.
    Wow, are’t you a midwestern legal eagle!

    I don’t know about trouble Carol Burnett had, but these days (Hollywood and Washington DC especially), libel is very destructive,(but lucrative for lawyers. )

    I also find it curious that Roman Polanski is now threatening to sue: Roman Polanski Threatens to Sue Over ‘Illegal’ Expulsion From Academy
    Why now after all these decades? I think he is opening up one huge can of worms.
     
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  19. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Just a political science grad having majored in totalitarian systems and constitutional law. :p

    Which seem to go "hand-in-hand" when it comes to such issues. Oh yeah- the ACLU attorney who represented the Nazis in that case was a Jew himself. o_O

    It was good that they never marched in Skokie. However the Supreme Court precedent they created in the process wasn't so popular, having expanded rights to free assembly and really putting the legal notion of an "imminent, lawless action" on its ear. :eek:

    Had they marched, I'm certain there would have been any number of imminent, lawless actions. ;)
     
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  20. Mary Anne

    Mary Anne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I had assumed that you might be a real judge, LOL. But I really doubted that realistically.